> > >Hi David, > >What I first want to see is experts and engineers who design cooling for >people instead of air thermometers. So why not try to sell AC to people >instead of to thermometers, there is your new market and it would give >spectacular energy savings at the same time. Then we might be able to stop >the over dimensioning (3 times or more) that produces humid cold air and an >environment that is uncomfortable for many, It is no serious engineer that >claim that energy transmission is a linear function, yet the formula for >calculation and dimensioning of HVAC is linear. Can anyone explain this? > >If you can solve the media boiling temperatures for absorption cooling >system, you can very well drive it from thermal solar power. The other way >is PV cells and compressors, but the PV cells in the market have 8-12% >efficiency and thermal panels 35%. You need an area 3-3.5 times larger with >PV cells, but you can get 2,5 to 3 times better efficiency with compressor. >PV cells are 3 to 5 times more expensive than thermal panels. So why it has >not been a market, is the costs and technical questions around PV panels. >Theoretically, it would be possible with hybrid between solar and other >heating source, but then you will not reach a very high percentage addition >from the solar part and that is why you asked the 95% question. Most >industrial solar AC, are in reality solar assisted AC. > >Obviously SolarFrost have developed a media with boiling point under 80 >degree Celsius and suitable for thermal solar. If we then could do >something about the engineers, it would be a huge market and economically >feasible. This especially when the energy crises will be more frequent and >fossil fuel costs will skyrocket. At the end it will anyway be solar and >wind that feeds the AC or it will be prohibited. The latter is a logical >consequence of energy crises, AC is something that you can turn off and be >without. It is not life supporting and one of the first luxury consumptions >that will go away. > >That is why I got exited about SolarFrost, economical feasibility and price >competitive with current technology. If they will succeed is an other >question and that one I cannot answer. > >Hakan > >At 20:15 12/12/2003, you wrote: > >Hi Hakan, > > > >I'm not familiar with any companies succeeding in this field. (except > >special projects companies working on gov't subsidized systems) > > > >I would like to see solar ac find some economically feasible > >markets. Will take some good engineering and creative thinking (to find > >the right market) > > > >David B. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 3:17 PM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: [solar-ac] State of the art > > > > > >David, > > > >No, do you? Solar assisted cooling is used in industrial solutions, but for > >the public not. > > > >To do it, you have to solve two problems. > > > >1. The engineering habits that results in over dimensioning with 3 to 4 > times. > >2. Products that are cost effective. > > > >The first is a matter of education. The second is the reason why I got > >exited, when I encountered the Solarfrost development. They have made it > >possible to actually make better AC with solar, but the first problem have > >to be solved. Solarfrost solution is feasible and have the potential to be > >a success, especially when space heating with solar panels gets more common. > > > >Hakan > > > >At 20:32 11/12/2003, you wrote: > > >Do you know of any companies profitably selling solar-ac equipment to > > >unsubsidized customers? > > > > > >-David > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 3:56 PM > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Subject: RE: [solar-ac] State of the art > > > > > > > > >David, > > > > > >We are not a company nor do we make any money on our web site, only > want to > > >communicate our knowledge and experiences at, > > > > > ><<<http://energysavingnow.com/>http://energysavingnow.com/>http://energ > ysavingnow.com/>http://energysa > > vingnow.com/ > > > > > >Hakan > > > > > >At 21:13 10/12/2003, you wrote: > > > >Hi Hakan, > > > > > > > >We certainly need good companies like yours to make these products > > > >available. My perspective is that success is best judged by consumer > > > >acceptance and more importantly, the profitability of the solar-ac > > > >suppliers. Not just profit derived from sales of engineering > services (or > > > >custom systems) to gov't or other not-for-profit organizations, but > profit > > > >derived from truly unsubsidized commercial sales. This I have not yet > > > >seen with solar ac. When a company is making enough profit, just > selling > > > >solar-ac systems to unsubsidized residential and commercial users, to > > > >employ a dozen people, that will be a great day for solar ac. > > > > > > > >David B. > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:04 PM > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Subject: RE: [solar-ac] State of the art > > > > > > > > > > > >David, > > > > > > > >Solar AC with thermal panels and absorption method is very competitive, > > > > > > > >Solar powered air conditioning > > > ><<<<http://solarfrost.com/>http://solarfrost.com/>http://solarfrost.c > om/>http://solarfrost.com/ > > ><http://solarfrost.com/>http://solarfrost.com/ > > > > > > > >Hakan > > > > > > > > > > > >At 18:42 10/12/2003, you wrote: > > > > >i'm interpreting 'practical' as both technically practical and > > financially > > > > >practical. solar cooling seems to be competitive in small > refrigerator > > > > >units when customer is off-grid. propane powered fridges compete with > > > > >solar here, but sales of solar fridges are respectable. not sure the > > > > >ratio. have not yet seem were solar-ac is competitive. > > > > > > > > > >david > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:45 AM > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >Subject: [solar-ac] State of the art > > > > > > > > > >Is it practical to expect solar energy to actually provide cooling > with > > > > >the equipment now available? > > > > > > > > > >Neal Van Milligen > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >
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