Hello James
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:02 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD
Hello James
>In one of my many conversations with a fuels specialist, he strongly
>suggested that BD has some thermal stability problems when used in over a
>10% mix with Petro. He has the degree and over 20 years experience in the
>field since I first met him.
What are thermal stability problems?
Sorry, I did not follow up the remark with any questions. However in the
past (10 years ago?) when he and I were discussing fuels the term meant the
fuel was unable to release all of its chemical power when stored at various
differing temperatures. Or so I understood when he explained.
I don't think there's any such problem. Jan pointed out what thermal
stability means. See:
http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200
5-July/001536.html
[Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD
http://snipurl.com/gdyo
Best wishes
Keith
Don't forget biodiesel also has 20 years' experience, or more, and
many millions of on-road miles behind it, along with tons of
research, and not just B10.
Best
Keith
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 4:47 PM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Doug Memering <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Saturday, July 16, 2005 9:40 pm
>Subject: [Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD
>
> >
> > > > Any of which can be replaced on an as needed basis. Terry's
> > mechanic> > should be a little more specific with him, rather than
> > issuing a
> > > > sweeping and perhaps unsupported statement.
> >
> > Perhaps I can shed some light on this topic, as I am an engineer
> > at Cummins
> > Inc, and work in Fuel System Development.
> > Officially, Cummins supports Biodiesel blends up to B5 or 5%
> > Biodiesel.There are several concerns the company has with higher
> > ratio blends. There
> > are three major areas of concerns that the company has. These are
> > mostlycommercial concerns which will be evident as I explain them
> > any of which an
> > individual could deal with by being aware and careful about what
> > they put
> > into their tank.
> >
> > First, while biodiesel is touted as being cleaner, there are some
> > caveats.While the particulate emissions (the ones you can see) are
> > considerablyimproved with biodiesel, the NOx emmission will
> > increase and the higher the
> > biodiesel ratio the higher the NOx increases. Up to B5 the
> > increase will
> > not likely move the engine's NOx emissions beyond the federal
> > limit, but B20
> > and higher will likely move the NOx emissions "outside of the
> > box". Since
> > the US tends to hold the manufacturers repsonsible for the
> > emissions of the
> > engines instead of the users the company must maintain a strict policy
> > against recommending or accepting fuels that will violate the
> > regulations.
> > Second, biodiesel has a lower heating value than Petro diesel,
> > therefore the
> > higher the biodiesel blend the lower the available power from the
> > engine.Most vehicles with B5.9 diesel are substantially
> > overpowered so the driver
> > may not notice the 2% loss of power with a B5 blend, but it will
> > become more
> > noticeable as the ratio is increased. As I said many of the vehicles,
> > especially pickups are overpowered for the job they do, so you it
> > wouldlikely not be bothered unless you are street racing or
> > pulling a large
> > (heavy) trailer through the mountains. But once again as a
> > company Cummins
> > is in the position that if the sell a 305 Hp engine and the
> > customers tend
> > to expect to get 305 Hp regardless of what fuel they chose to put
> > in the
> > tank.
> >
> > The third and more serious concern for us homegrown biodieselers,
> > in my
> > opinion, is water. Most tanks collect water, many vehicles are
> > equippedwith water separation filters to protect the fuel system
> > components. The
> > problem is the biodiesel has a higher affinity for water than
> > petrol diesel,
> > so the biodiesel is going to carry the water out of the tank.
> > Furthermore,the water separators that are normally used will NOT
> > extract the water from
> > biodiesel so the water gets carried into the fuel system. Most
> > modern fuel
> > systems are very sensitive to water. The engine will run
> > initially but the
> > internal fuel system components will quickly corrode which will
> > lead to a
> > fuel system failure, and usually an expensive one.
> >
> > The company is also concerned about the quality of the biodiesel
> > coming on
> > the market. They have a wide variety from some very high quality
> > to some
> > very poor quality and currently there are no recognized quality
> > standardthat the commercial producers are going by.
> >
> > There are other concerns with blending biodiesel with the coming
> > Ultra Low
> > Sulfur Diesel (ULSD). It has a few challenges to overcome but I
> > will not go
> > into the details here.
> >
> > With all that said, my personal observation (not the view of
> > Cummins) is
> > that if you pay attention to what you are putting in your tank
> > qaulity wise.
> > You make sure that it is dry. Then you should not have any
> > problems with
> > the fuel system of the age mentioned. The timing does not need to be
> > changed in order for the engine run, however you will be producing
> > more NOx
> > than you were with petrodiesel. You will likely see degradation
> > of non
> > metal lines in the fuel system and you have to replace all of them
> > at some
> > point. Return lines are probably the first ones you will notice.
> > I believe
> > most vehicles run steel lines for the supply lines from the tank
> > to the
> > engine.
> >
> > I am brewing my own biodiesel and running it in my 94 Cummins 5.9L
> > dieseland I intend to eventually run on straight biodiesel. I
> > know the risks and
> > will watch things carefully.
> >
> > I hope this helps
> >
> > Doug
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