Keith, Great Information, You got ribbons too?
My daughter might want one!! fred On 8/11/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Thanks Jan for the explanation. > > > >And Keith I am sorry that I irritated you with a dumb question, I > >will avoid that in the future. > > For heaven's sake, that's the second time! I wasn't irritated, but > now I am! You got good information, do you want a red ribbon round it > too? :-( > > Keith Addison > > > >Doug > > > > > > > >>Hello Doug > >> > >>>Hello group, > >>>I am a beginner in the conversion of WVO to BD and I have been > >>>having trouble with my titration process. On JTF there are 2 > >>>reference documents on titration which I have been using as my > >>>guide. > >> > >>There's more than that there about titration. > >> > >>>However, I don't seem to get consistent results. For example, One > >>>time I will get 1.55ml and the second time I get 3.22 ml using > >>>WVO from the same batch and drawing from the same solution of NaOH > >>>and water. > >>> > >>>First is that kind of variability to be expected? > >> > >>No. > >> > >>>Second I noticed in reviewing the tritration documents again, that > >>>isopropyl alcohol is specifed. > >> > >>But how could you not have noticed that the first time round? > >>Everywhere is says so. > >> > >>> I have been using the same methanol that I use in the conversion > >>>process. Prefacing this with "I ain't no chemist", Is that the > >>>source of my problem? If that is the case can someone explain why > >>>the titration is done with one type of alcohol when the process is > >>>run with a different one? > >> > >>I also ain't no chemist, very few of us are chemists, but we can > >>learn, and do. I can't give you a technical comparison of the > >>effects of different alcohols, but why depart from established > >>practice when you're just starting? It doesn't make a lot of sense > >>anyway, titration and processing have different purposes, with > >>titration you're only finding out how much acid will have to be > >>neutralised, not processing the WVO. The result of the titration is > >>applied to the subsequent processing in the form of the amount of > >>lye required, not the kind of alcohol to use. If you assume that > >>the two different processes should use the same alcohol then why > >>don't you also assume that they should use it in the same > >>proportions? - ie 10 litres of 99%+ isopropyl alcohol per one litre > >>of WVO to be processed? > >> > >>Anyway, it is possible to use isopropyl alcohol to make biodiesel, > >>called branched-alkyl esters, which have the advantage of much > >>improved cold-weather properties. There's discussion of this in the > >>list archives, using either isopropyl alcohol or butanol. But it's > >>not for homebrewers, though many have tried - it's laboratory-level > >>stuff, patented but not used, nobody is using these techniques yet > >>AFAIK. > >> > >>>Also I seem to be having difficulty keeping the WVO and alcohol > >>>mixed during the titration process, which would be what I would > >>>attribute to the variation in the results. > >> > >>I don't think so. > >> > >>>I have been carrying out the titration in a test tube and shaking > >>>it after each drop, but the oil still seems to settle out. > >> > >>Stirring is better. Did you warm the mixture first (and the 0.1% > >>NaOH solution)? Use something wider than a test tube that you can > >>stir. > >> > >>>And even when they are mixed it is a cloudy white solution, not > >>>clear as the JTF documents indicate. > >> > >>They do not indicate that. What they say is that it should be clear > >>(thoroughly mixed) BEFORE you start adding the 0.1% NaOH solution. > >> > >>"Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir > >>until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 > >>drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add > >>0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein > >>solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn > >>pink and stays that way for 10 seconds." ... > >>Biodiesel from waste oil > >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo > >> > >>"Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water > >>(0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of > >>dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the > >>beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the > >>oil dissolves in the alcohol and the mixture turns clear. Add 2 > >>drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add > >>the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the > >>oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until > >>the solution stays pink (actually magenta) for 10 seconds." ... > >>Basic titration > >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate > >> > >>"Instead of the usual 1 ml of oil and 10 ml of isopropyl alcohol, > >>mix 4 ml of oil in 40 ml of isopropyl alcohol in a glass beaker. > >>Warm the mixture gently by standing the beaker in hot water, stir > >>until all the oil disperses and it becomes a clear mixture. Then > >>titrate as usual, measuring milliliters of stock solution used." ... > >>Better titration > >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#bettertitrate > >> > >>"Mix 10 milliliters of isopropyl alcohol in a small container with > >>a 1 milliliter sample of WVO -- make sure it's exactly 1 > >>milliliter. Take the WVO titration sample from the reaction vessel > >>(Figure 5 #1) after it's been warmed up and stirred. Add to this > >>solution 2 drops of phenolphthalein, an acid-base indicator that's > >>colorless in acid and red in base. Using a graduated eye dropper > >>(with increments marked in tenths of milliliters) or some other > >>calibrated instrument (from medical supply outlets), while > >>carefully keeping track of the amounts, drop measured amounts of > >>the lye/water solution a couple of tenths of milliliters at a time > >>into the WVO/isopropyl/phenolphthalein solution. Follow each drop > >>with vigorous stirring of the solution. In cold weather the WVO > >>might congeal and not work so you might need to do the titration in > >>a heated room. If conditions are right eventually the solution > >>turns pink (magenta), and stays pink for 10 seconds." ... > >>Mike Pelly's biodiesel method > Titration > >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html#titration > >> > >>>Any help would be appreciated. > >> > >>There's more info there about titration. You don't tell us just > >>what you did - did you use phenolphthalein or a pH meter? Spell it > >>out, step by step. > >> > >>Meanwhile I think you should give everything on these two pages a > >>thorough read: > >> > >>Make your own biodiesel > >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html > >> > >>Three choices > >>1. Mixing it > >>2. Straight vegetable oil > >>3. Biodiesel > >>Biodiesel > >>Where do I start? > >>What's next? > >>The process > >>Our first biodiesel > >>Biodiesel from new oil > >>Biodiesel from waste oil > >>Removing the water > >>Washing > >>Using biodiesel > >>Safety > >>How much methanol? > >>Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel > >>Reclaiming excess methanol > >>More about lye > >>How much lye to use? > >>Basic titration > >>Better titration > >>Accurate measurements > >>pH meters > >>Phenolphthalein > >>pH meters vs phenolphthalein > >>High FFA levels > >>Deacidifying WVO > >>No titration? > >>The basic lye quantity -- 3.5 grams? > >>Mixing the methoxide > >>Test batches > >>Stock methoxide solution > >>Poor man's titration > >>How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? > >>PET bottle mixers > >>Viscosity testing > >>How the process works > >>What are Free Fatty Acids? > >>Iodine Values > >>-- High Iodine Values > >>-- Talking about the weather > >>Which method to use? > >>Why can't I start with the Foolproof method? > >>Quality > >>Quality testing > >>Cetane Numbers > >>National standards for biodiesel > >>-- standards and the homebrewer > >>-- standard testing > >>Biodiesel in gasoline engines > >>Home heating > >>Lamps and stoves > >>Other uses > >>Identifying plastics > >> > >>Best wishes > >> > >>Keith > >> > >> > >> > >>>Thanks > >>>Doug Memering > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
