I just said this in another message: >I'm going to insist that if people want to discuss it all here >they're very welcome, but we really don't need the sheer distraction >of having to blunder down all the same old blind alleys again for >the umpteenth time. Discuss it if you can take things further >forward than previous discussions have done rather than backward, >contribute something, come up with a new angle or a different >aspect. Do your homework first, in other words.
This is from a message on 19 Dec 2005: >Not only do we have David Pimentel's annual disinfo campaign against >ethanol to contend with, this year he found a new friend, Tad >Patzek, and they did a duet, in two parts furthermore, attacking not >only ethanol but biodiesel too. Arch-shill Denis Avery of the Hudson >Institute has now joined the fray. He's been waging a disinfo war >against organic farming for years. Many of the "green" groups, >especially the "corporate enviros" sector (Big Green), swallow >Pimentel's anti-ethanol crap, but they fight Avery over organic >farming. But they're agreeing with Avery over biofuels, from George >Monbiot a few months ago on. > >Some of the myths of vegetarianism play right into their hands. >Especially if it's true that some or many vegetarians, whatever they >might say, really do it as alleged because veggies don't scream and >try to escape when you kill them, ie for emotional reasons. To which >of course they're welcome, but it means they'll be more likely to >believe what they want to believe rather than accept unpalatable >facts such as that it's not even possible to grow veggies >sustainably without raising animals, or that there is no traditional >vegetarian farming system and never has been, or not one that >survived. But if you know that it's not so easy to fall for the >"food vs fuel" line Pimentel spins. Quite a lot of vegetarians are cultists, and they're suckers for Big Oil shills like David Pimentel and Dennis Avery. The discussions on vegetarianism at the Biofuel list go back a long way, and if all aspects of it are not covered in previous discussions it's sure worth checking anyway. I think this message from Ken Dunn probably brings most of it up to date. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg58252.html Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming Ken Dunn, 11/28/05 Around that time there were also further discussions on the health aspects. Just after that we had a real exhibition of cult vegetarianism. It had no integrity, it achieved nothing but confusion and distraction, and I think that's where it can stop. This is from a post from me nearly four years ago, 27 Mar 2002: >David Pimentel's infamous anti-ethanol reports are much used by >vegetarian and vegan activists who're after saving the world by >eradicating livestock farming. Pimentel says: "With the world >population at 5.5 billion, food production is adequate to feed 7 >billion people a vegetarian diet, with ideal distribution and no >grain fed to livestock." > >Some people really hate it (and hate me) when I say these things, >but there is no sustainable way of raising plants without animals. >There is no traditional farming system that doesn't used animals, >and never has been. It just doesn't work - soil fertility sooner or >later fails, and then everything else fails too. Likewise in nature >mixed farming is the rule, plants are always found with animals. God >can't do it, and neither can we. > >But it's no use trying to argue with these people, it's not >rational, it's a moral crusade, and if you don't agree, then you're >the enemy. This is how a recent such tussle ended: > >"I disagree completely. There is no place for animal cultivation or >the use of plant biomass to feed animals instead of people in any >responsible plan to alleviate world hunger or promote >sustainability." Then came the flames. > >Well, I just hope somebody will save the world from these people - >all the Third World needs is this kind of bent-headed crap. Just to >put that Pimentel quote above about population in perspective, >there's enough food available to provide at least 4.3 pounds of food >per person a day worldwide: two and half pounds of grain, beans and >nuts, about a pound of fruits and vegetables, and nearly another >pound of meat, milk and eggs - enough to make most people fat. No >need to cut the meat. "With ideal distribution", Pimentel says, as >if it's but a simple matter, whereas in fact it's the whole problem, >the only reason people go hungry - an inequitable economic system. > >These people leapfrog from well-founded criticisms of factory >farming and industrial livestock production to a general damnation >of "animal-based and fossil-fuel-based agriculture", which they say >is backed by the evil IMF, just for good measure, in order to >promote worldwide vegan vegetarianism as the golden solution for all. > >"My area of interest in environmental activism is providing positive, working >alternatives to animal-based and fossil-fuel-based agriculture in developing >and poor areas that would obviate the need for the corporate (i.e., IMF) >development programs that ultimately prove oppressive and destructive to local >self-sufficiency." > >Any idea of sustainable livestock production as a part of >sustainable farming is just dismissed out of hand. > >So that's Pimentel's angle, FYI. > >I'm not against vegetarianism, or vegetarians, but I am against >vegetarian farming systems being promoted as sustainable, they're >simply not, and I'm very against the idea of their being promoted as >the solution - the only solution - to Third World poverty and world >hunger. If anybody wants to argue about it, go right ahead and argue - but do your arguing with the list archives first, don't come up with the same tired old arguments that have already been dealt with. Thankyou. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
