yes, my explanation did not include a full cycle, but i was commenting with the assumtion that a cycle would be used. even then it would take weeks to produce enough fuel to run one tractor for a full season, and personally i would want at least one tank filling spare in case something went wrong with the equipment that caused lost fuel. even then you would have to run the first harvest on fossil fuels unless you knew someone that had already beaten the system and was willing to sell you a supply.  when i say "until..." i am suggesting only a couple of months at most.
 
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] From the BBC -- Biofuels: Green energy or grim reaper?

Jason,
     When you say
     "as for using fossil fuels to harvest ethanol crops, i would say it is a nessecary evil until the harvesting equipment can be fueled entirely by alternatives."
 
I wince a bit.
     Why not run the tractors on alternative fuels?
 
     The cost of alternative fuels such as BD and ethanol, includes the fertilizers used to produce the feedstocks, the fuel used to run the tractors for tilling, planting, harvesting, the energy is processing/distilling, anf the cost of transporting and distributing the fuel. 
     The cost is often based on the mistaken notion that the BD produced OR the ethanol distilled is the only valuable product of the harvest. I compare this to raising beef cattle only for rib eye steaks, or chickens only for their wings, and throwing the rest out (paying to have it disposed of). If this were the case then the cost rib eye steaks and chicken wings would be prohibitive (even more prohibitive?)
     What if:
   1.   Vegetable oils were extracted and used for cooking, then recycled and, with animal fats -----> BD to run the tractors/distill the ethanol, or use the WVO directly to run generators/burn in oil-fired burners to distill ethanol.
   2. The remaining starch from the plant after pressing for oil was fermented and distilled (w/o using fossil fuels).
   3. Stems, leaves, roots  ----> silage for grazing animals enriched by the protein that remains in the feedstock after it has been pressed for oil and fermented for ethanol.
   4. Use biogas (methane) from the animal manure to run generators, tractors, or burned for heat  (including distillation).
     5. Methane gas (biogas) production does not compromise the value of manure as fertilizer. Use the manure for fertilizer after methane gas has been produced.
    6. Recycle the glycerin "cocktail" produced during BD production. If split w. phosphoric acid,  the excess KOH in the mix forms potassium phosphate a valuable fertilizer that could be added to the manure. If split w. sulfuric acid  the KOH forms potassium sulfate (Nitrogen in the manure + Potassium, Phosphorus, and Sulfur from process are the "big 4" in fertilizer. The manure already contains the micronutrients).
     After recovering excess methanol, the glycerin from the mix not only composts well, but I've found that it actually stimulates decomposition.
  7.  Do this on locally to minimize transport costs/waste.
 
     I've been told that little is wasted in processing butchered animals. This mentality might be applied to our crops. A given crop might one day be viewed as part food and part fuels.
    
     I'll leave it to you to factor in the cost tax payers already pay for fossil fuel subsidies, and what we all pay for health care, property damage, & human suffering due to air pollution. What is the cost in tax dollars, insurance premiums & human suffering for the disasters that global warming brings? Feel free to add other "hidden" costs associated with the current reliance on fossil fuels and I think we would agree that their cost is prohibitive.
     The above scenario may well require some planning and restructuring. It probably will require people from different backgrounds to work together towards a common goal. Impossible   .... for our children's sake, I hope not.
 
             Best to you and your family,
                                                Tom
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] From the BBC -- Biofuels: Green energy or grim reaper?

[OPINION]     this is crap.
[EDUCATED GUESS]     this guy assumes ethanol and soy are the only viable feedstocks.
[FACT]    they are not.
[OPINION]     Mr. McNeely has not looked into his options very well, /and/ biofuels are only a stopgap measure to give us a few more decades to come up with a decent working solution.  as for using fossil fuels to harvest ethanol crops, i would say it is a nessecary evil until the harvesting equipment can be fueled entirely by alternatives. there is by default going to be some turnover time.
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 2:18 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] From the BBC -- Biofuels: Green energy or grim reaper?

 

Biofuels could end up damaging the natural world rather than saving it from global warming, argues Jeff McNeely in the Green Room. Better policies, better science and genetic modification, he says, can all contribute to a greener biofuels revolution

With soaring oil prices, and debates raging on how to reduce carbon emissions to slow climate change, many are looking to biofuels as a renewable and clean source of energy.

The European Union recently has issued a directive calling for biofuels to meet 5.75% of transportation fuel needs by 2010. Germany and France have announced they intend to meet the target well before the deadline; California intends going still further.

This is a classic "good news-bad news" story.

Of course we all want greater energy security, and helping achieve the goals (however weak) of the Kyoto Protocol is surely a good thing.

However, biofuels - made by producing ethanol, an alcohol fuel made from maize, sugar cane, or other plant matter - may be a penny wise but pound foolish way of doing so.

Consider the following:

  • The grain required to fill the petrol tank of a Range Rover with ethanol is sufficient to feed one person per year. Assuming the petrol tank is refilled every two weeks, the amount of grain required would feed a hungry African village for a year
  • Much of the fuel that Europeans use will be imported from Brazil, where the Amazon is being burned to plant more sugar and soybeans, and Southeast Asia, where oil palm plantations are destroying the rainforest habitat of orangutans and many other species. Species are dying for our driving
  • If ethanol is imported from the US, it will likely come from maize, which uses fossil fuels at every stage in the production process, from cultivation using fertilisers and tractors to processing and transportation. Growing maize appears to use 30% more energy than the finished fuel produces, and leaves eroded soils and polluted waters behind
  • Meeting the 5.75% target would require, according to one authoritative study, a quarter of the EU's arable land
  • Using ethanol rather than petrol reduces total emissions of carbon dioxide by only about 13% because of the pollution caused by the production process, and because ethanol gets only about 70% of the mileage of petrol
  • Food prices are already increasing. With just 10% of the world's sugar harvest being converted to ethanol, the price of sugar has doubled; the price of palm oil has increased 15% over the past year, with a further 25% gain expected next year.
Little wonder that many are calling biofuels "deforestation diesel", the opposite of the environmentally friendly fuel that all are seeking.

With so much farmland already taking the form of monoculture, with all that implies for wildlife, do we really want to create more diversity-stripped desert?

Others are worried about the impacts of biofuels on food prices, which will affect especially the poor who already spend a large proportion of their income on food.

Biotech boost

So what is to be done? The first step is to increase our understanding of how nature works to produce energy.

Amazingly, scientists do not yet have a full understanding of the workings of photosynthesis, the process by which plants use solar energy to absorb carbon dioxide and build carbohydrates.

Biotechnology, its reputation sullied by public protests over GM foods, may make important contributions. According to the science journal Nature, recombinant technology is already available that could enhance ethanol yield, reduce environmental damage from feedstock, and improve bioprocessing efficiency at the refinery.

The Swiss biotech firm Syngenta is developing a genetically engineered maize that can help convert itself into ethanol by growing a particular enzyme.

Others are designing trees that have less lignin, the strength-giving substance that enables them to stand upright, but makes it more difficult to convert the tree's cellulose into ethanol.

Some environmentalists are worried that these altered trees will cross-breed with wild trees, resulting in a drooping forest rather than one that stands tall and produces useful timber and wildlife habitat.

In the longer run, biotech promises to help convert wood chips, farm wastes, and willow trees into bioethanol more cheaply and cleanly, thereby helping meet energy needs while also improving its public image.

Public stake

But that is not nearly enough; bioenergy is too important to be left in the hands of the private sector.

Many of the social and environmental benefits of bioenergy are not priced in the market, so the public sector needs to step in to ensure these benefits are delivered.

An easy immediate step would be to mandate improved fuel efficiency for all forms of transport, beginning with the private automobile. A 20% increase in fuel-efficiency standards is feasible using current technology, and would save far more energy than Europe's biomass could produce.

Governments also need to provide leadership in the form of economic incentives to minimise competition between food and fuel crops, and ensure that water, high-quality agricultural land, and biodiversity are not sacrificed on the altar of our convenience.

Calculations of energy return on investment need to include environmental impacts on soil, water, climate change, and ecosystem services.

The bottom line is that biofuels can contribute to energy and environmental goals only as part of an overall strategy that includes energy conservation, a diversity of sustainable energy sources, greater efficiency in production and transport, and careful management of ethanol production.

Jeffrey A McNeely is chief scientist of IUCN, the World Conservation Union, based in Switzerland

The Green Room is a series of opinion articles on environmental topics running weekly on the BBC News website


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