On Friday 02 June 2006 22:44, Phi Tran wrote: > I like to share with you all some of my thoughts based on reasoning and my > observation and as result on some of my experience: > > 1- You all know having a very good welcome and much more potential then > "FLASH". Adobe has more reputation then Macromedia, they an easily push it > thru to become wide accepted standard but they choose other way around?. It > tell me something that either they could not find the talented resource > enough to make it thru or the architect of it has some flaws/hurdle to make > SVG become inferior or both. To me this is admittance on Adobe part that > SVG will not serve their purpose and inferior to Flash? > > 2- We have got into this dilemma: > > a- If we put everything (Script and event) inside the SVG then 'SVG" can > not access external elements. Then this is nothing more then an other > 'Flash". In this case I have not seen any player can have it technically > competitive yet simply it's veeeeeeery slow. I personally have done some > research on "Batik" and "FF" on this matter and I don't think that > architect can helping me to overcome this hurdle. > I can not follow your point. Put everything "inside" what? SVG is a natively-supported standard for all modern browsers. Even stone-aged IE is implementing it natively. In other words, except for those users who insist on using 2000 technology, SVG is natively supported in their browser. Therefore there is no such thing as an inaccesible element. You have an svg page, and you render it. Or you have an xhtml page, and you render it. There is nothing to add beyond this, as there is nothing "outside" of that document context.
Your arguments appear to be firmly stuck in 2001. > b- If we put the SVG outside of the player and/or using SVG-outside > javascript making SVG as a part of the DOM. I have give up on this when all > time and every time IE will fails me if there is about 5-6000 elements > total I have not come up with the exact number yet but 6000 is a sure shot. > FF other hand do not fail me on about 7000 yet but it cost me two arms and > a leg to have an element update. (I have not counting the loading time > yet). Again, what player? There is no "player" except for stand-alone players such as SVG players on mobile systems. Are you referring to the legacy 2001 Adobe SVG viewer plugin? Phi, that was almost six years ago. You might consider developing around modern tools. > > c- As some have suggested: Take the code from Batik or FF then make it work > on IE? building a "Me too" ? It is not going to be better either -I > think?-. > Not a good idea, since IE are already solving their own problem. > d- I do believe the VML plug-gin for none IE may be more appealing to big > player such as Google map then having SVG or even MS live local ? > > 3- Let's be real: Just give me an percentage of client that does not have > access to IE. You can have 15-20% of the client that have FF or Opera. > Among them how many does not have access to IE ? I think this number is > veeeeery small. Phi, Do you really want to exclude Mac OSX users (you know, the cool people with too much money) from your user base? What about mobile users? There are more web browsers on mobile phones than on desktops already, and everyone knows that the desktop market is stagnant. > > 4- Does Microsoft having any incentive to have SVG "natively support" ?. > give these facts/fact-toids > Well, they have enough incentive to be reportedly working on it. > a- They already have VML. > > b- It does not take much time to get the open source then make it become an > plug-gin activeX as of AVG. As the way MS does in the pass with "filer > activeX"; 99% percent of the development are already there?. I think this > will become one more "Flash" inferior product. Not counting that MS are > competing with Adobe on other areas of the Web development? > Another ActiveX "Me too" ? > I doubt anyone will ever roll out another activeX component. That is far too lame. > c- "Hope" come when other browsers are supporting SVG? will it cause MS > to support SVG?. Without any other development we are all hung by a thread. > ASV is an ActiveX which is OS application now it works on XP, 2000. Does it > work on Vista? LongHorn?. > Where is hope? You should read the tech news more. Ever heard of Nokia? or of OSX? You are right, plugins are pretty much doomed. The only answer is native SVG and xhtml support in mainstream browsers. > > > ONLY THE FUTURE WILL TELL. > Your arguments are about 2 years out of date. I suggest you read the technical press and newsgroup listings. At the European SVG Workshop last April, I recall only one of ten presenters using IE6. As well, four of the presentations were done on Macs. People may have access to IE, but generally speaking, they only use it under duress. Please tone down the FUD in your emails. It does little more than spread misinformation around the newsgroups. At the very least, check your facts before spewing. Instead, why not try to make your application *work* on non-windows platform. Ronan > > Thanks > > Phi > > On 6/2/06, Jeff Schiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Actually, digging a little more the spec > > (http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/attindex.html) says that xlink:href is not > > defined for the script element after all. Is this something that all > > implementations have just decided to do anyway? Seems sensible and it > > currently works in ASV, Opera, and Firefox... > > > > And what is the externalResourcesRequired attribute all about? > > > > Now I'm confused... > > > > Jeff > > > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Schiller" > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > This is one of the things which confused me in the very beginning. > > > The <script> element in SVG is not exactly the same as the <script> > > > element in HTML. It is not obvious how to include external scripts > > > from the spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/script.html#ScriptElement > > > It's like the specification is intentionally confusing on this point. > > > > > > You have to use the xlink:href attribute, not the src attribute. > > > Furthermore, the xlink namespace needs to be defined up front on your > > > SVG element: > > > > > > <svg version="1.1" ... > > > onload="init();" > > > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"; > > > xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"; > > > > > > <script xlink:href="yourscript.js"/> > > > </svg> > > > > > > Another option is to include the script in the body of the <script> > > > element (be sure to use CDATA block if you use characters like <, >, > > > > etc). > > > > > Also, if all your functionality is happening in the SVG file directly, > > > I advise you to do away with the referencing HTML document as it > > > serves no purpose. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Pramod Eligeti." > > > > > > <pramodcse@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > i just have a simple doubt in SVG. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. <body scroll="no"> > > > > <embed src="WorldView.svg" type="image/svg+xml" width="100%" > > > > height="100% > > > > > > > > "pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/main.html";> > > > > <div id="infoDiv"></div> > > > > </body> > > > > -------------------------> here i am including the SVG "WorldView" > > > > document in the XHTML page. > > > > > > > > 2. <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" > > > > src="ClientEventHandler.js"> </script> > > > > <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" > > > > src="XMLHttpRequest.js"> </script> > > > > > > > > ------------------> i have included these 2 java script files in the > > > > same XHTML page which have functions > > > > > > > > for Init n getTrueCoords defined in SVG document. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"; onload='Init(evt)' > > > > onmousemove='GetTrueCoords(evt); > > > > > > > > ShowTooltip(evt, true)' > > > > onmouseout='ShowTooltip(evt, false)'> > > > > > > > > <g id='ToolTip' opacity='1.0' display='none' pointer-events='none'> > > > > > > > > <rect id='tipbox' x='0' y='5' width='100' height='20' rx='4' > > > > ry='4' fill='White' stroke='Black'/> > > > > <text id='tipText' x='5' y='20' font-family='Times New Roman' > > > > font-size='13'> > > > > <tspan id='tipTitle' x='5' font-weight='bold' fill='Blue'> > > > > </tspan> > > > > </text> > > > > > > > > </g> > > > > > > > > -------------> here is the code in "WordView" svg document. > > > > > > > > 4. In the first JS file "ClientEventHandler.js" i have the funtions > > > > Init, GetTrueCoords(evt) ..... so on. > > > > > > > > now when a user preform some action like click an element say circle > > > > shape of SVG document, this JS script > > > > > > > > makes AJAX (XHR) requests n comes with an XML with some data, which i > > > > will parse n update the SVG document > > > > > > > > dynamically. Since this SVG is embedded in the HTML page, the page > > > > shows the necessary updated data. > > > > > > > > Now my doubt is why to serve HTML page when user starts from the > > > > browser rather than the SVG document > > > > > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > for that i need to include the 2 external javascript files in the SVG > > > > document so that i directly invoke > > > > > > > > the SVG document from the browser. i just tried to do like this but > > > > it doesnt work. > > > > > > > > <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"; onload='Init(evt)' > > > > onmousemove='GetTrueCoords(evt); > > > > > > > > ShowTooltip(evt, true)' > > > > onmouseout='ShowTooltip(evt, false)'> > > > > > > > > <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" > > > > src="ClientEventHandler.js"> </script> > > > > <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" > > > > src="XMLHttpRequest.js"> </script> > > > > > > > > <g id='ToolTip' opacity='1.0' display='none' pointer-events='none'> > > > > > > > > <rect id='tipbox' x='0' y='5' width='100' height='20' rx='4' > > > > ry='4' fill='White' stroke='Black'/> > > > > <text id='tipText' x='5' y='20' font-family='Times New Roman' > > > > font-size='13'> > > > > <tspan id='tipTitle' x='5' font-weight='bold' fill='Blue'> > > > > </tspan> > > > > </text> > > > > > > > > </g> > > > > > > > > </svg> > > > > > > > > but here it says unable to find Init n other functions. > > > > > > > > I also want suggestions that which is the good method to either embed > > > > SVG in HTML page or directly use SVG > > > > > > > > alone for web applications. > > > > > > > > Tnks for suggestions n comments, > > > > > > > > Byee, > > > > Pramod. > > > > ----- > > To unsubscribe send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -or- > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my > > membership" > > ---- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > ----- > To unsubscribe send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my > membership" ---- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Ronan Oger Director RO IT Systems GmbH ...Building Web2.0 with SVG since 2001 http://www.roitsystems.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ----- To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" ---- Yahoo! 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