Okay, I've updated the part of the wiki that says we shouldn't do it. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#NSW_Alphanumeric_references
Ian. On 10 May 2013 09:45, Ben Kelley <ben.kel...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi. > > The new routes are supposed to be complete by the end of this year. > > I know it takes me a while to get around to fixing something on OSM. > > Perhaps if you are keen then approach 2 is OK (and signage will catch up > eventually). If you are lazy then 1 is the default. :) > > - Ben Kelley. > On 10 May 2013 07:06, "Ian Sergeant" <inas66+...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm surprised you couldn't find some F3 signs there as well! >> >> In any event, we can.. >> >> 1. Ignore the new routes until they are completed. Then re-reference the >> road. >> 2. As soon as the route is confirmed and there are some signs, >> re-reference the road >> 3. Adopt some new schema that allows us to have both route references at >> once. >> 4. Adopt of hodge-podge approach, and reference partial roads, based on >> the assessment/whim of the mapper concerned. >> >> I originally proposed 1, but now I'm leaning towards 2, because I feel >> I'm swimming against the tide. >> >> I don't think we're capable of doing 3. And I'd hate to end up with 4. >> >> Ian. >> >> >> On 10 May 2013 05:29, Ben Johnson <tangarar...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I took a look there last weekend. As you say... inconsistencies >>> everywhere. >>> >>> Northbound all are M1 with B74, and there's even a distance reassurance >>> sign (not interchange-related) showing distances to Brisbane, titled "M1 >>> Pacific Mwy" which I was surprised to see. >>> >>> Southbound all are NR1 with B74. >>> >>> The signs at the top of the ramps are in odd combinations like NR1 >>> "Pacific Mwy" on one sign, and M1 "Freeway" on another... >>> >>> It's a real tourist attraction for sign geeks! >>> >>> BJ >>> >>> On 09/05/2013, at 22:11, Nathan Van Der Meulen <natvan...@yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > You're not going to win any way you change the route references. On >>> the ground, around the Tuggerah Interchange alone are references to Nat >>> Route 1, M1, Pacific Motorway etc. Note that the freeway is referenced as >>> M1 from Wyong Rd (B74) but on the freeway it's still NR1. B74 only seems >>> to be referenced at the interchange. If you only edit as per what's on the >>> ground, how do you edit that? >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPad >>> > >>> > On 03/05/2013, at 21:00, talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: >>> > >>> >> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to >>> >> talk-au@openstreetmap.org >>> >> >>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> >> talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org >>> >> >>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> >> talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org >>> >> >>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> >> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..." >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Today's Topics: >>> >> >>> >> 1. Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ian Sergeant) >>> >> 2. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ben Kelley) >>> >> 3. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ian Sergeant) >>> >> 4. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ben Johnson) >>> >> 5. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ian Sergeant) >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >>> >> Message: 1 >>> >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:07:02 +1000 >>> >> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> >>> >> To: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> >>> >> Subject: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW >>> >> Message-ID: >>> >> <CALDa4YLY+4KEnutrnBmjcRpE5z3G5hH4z6Yzyu=duwiw5sn...@mail.gmail.com >>> > >>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >> >>> >> Hi, >>> >> >>> >> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the >>> >> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed. >>> >> >>> >> I don't see the purpose of this. I doesn't correspond to what is on >>> the >>> >> ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for >>> >> navigation. Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be >>> >> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed >>> routes >>> >> on the webpage. >>> >> >>> >> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been >>> re-referenced is >>> >> the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with >>> perhaps an >>> >> uncovered sign here and there. I traced the >>> >> >>> >> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references >>> change? >>> >> That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once, rather >>> than a >>> >> patchwork? >>> >> >>> >> Ian. >>> >> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching >>> >> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here. >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> >> URL: < >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/f593d5da/attachment-0001.html >>> > >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------ >>> >> >>> >> Message: 2 >>> >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:33:45 +1000 >>> >> From: Ben Kelley <ben.kel...@gmail.com> >>> >> To: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> >>> >> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> >>> >> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW >>> >> Message-ID: >>> >> <CAE4-2TKPPKzjA3EE-kwfkDrH=8b-_by+h74hv3ytdgn+ajl...@mail.gmail.com >>> > >>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >> >>> >> Hi. >>> >> >>> >> I have seen a few A15 signs on the New England Highway, but there are >>> still >>> >> quite a few 43 and 15 signs along the route. The ground can still be >>> a bit >>> >> confusing. >>> >> >>> >> - Ben Kelley. >>> >> On 3 May 2013 15:08, "Ian Sergeant" <inas66+...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> >>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the >>> >>> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed. >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't see the purpose of this. I doesn't correspond to what is on >>> the >>> >>> ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for >>> >>> navigation. Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't >>> be >>> >>> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed >>> routes >>> >>> on the webpage. >>> >>> >>> >>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been >>> re-referenced is >>> >>> the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with >>> perhaps an >>> >>> uncovered sign here and there. I traced the >>> >>> >>> >>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references >>> >>> change? That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once, >>> >>> rather than a patchwork? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ian. >>> >>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching >>> >>> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue >>> here. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Talk-au mailing list >>> >>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >>> >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> >> URL: < >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/deaad936/attachment-0001.html >>> > >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------ >>> >> >>> >> Message: 3 >>> >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:47:02 +1000 >>> >> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> >>> >> To: Ben Kelley <ben.kel...@gmail.com> >>> >> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> >>> >> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW >>> >> Message-ID: >>> >> <calda4yjaebwhjfczgsmc2yqdevjtquorqlvok-mkwzjgxxg...@mail.gmail.com >>> > >>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >> >>> >> Agreed. >>> >> >>> >> I could see a strict "on-the-grounder" changing the ref for each road >>> >> section :-) >>> >> >>> >> I've noticed Google Maps is using the A36 now for the Princes Hwy, >>> but I've >>> >> only seen one sign at Rockdale, so I still think it is too early to >>> change >>> >> the route in OSM, but I'm open to be convinced. >>> >> >>> >> But I think using the wiki to coordinate when a particular route has >>> been >>> >> referenced, and then we use old_ref to capture the previous route >>> >> referencing. Currently when I use skobbler to do navigation its ugly >>> >> moving back and forth in references between the same road. >>> >> >>> >> Ian. >>> >> >>> >> On 3 May 2013 15:33, Ben Kelley <ben.kel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Hi. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have seen a few A15 signs on the New England Highway, but there are >>> >>> still quite a few 43 and 15 signs along the route. The ground can >>> still be >>> >>> a bit confusing. >>> >>> >>> >>> - Ben Kelley. >>> >>> On 3 May 2013 15:08, "Ian Sergeant" <inas66+...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the >>> >>>> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> I don't see the purpose of this. I doesn't correspond to what is >>> on the >>> >>>> ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM >>> for >>> >>>> navigation. Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't >>> be >>> >>>> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the >>> proposed routes >>> >>>> on the webpage. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been >>> re-referenced is >>> >>>> the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with >>> perhaps an >>> >>>> uncovered sign here and there. I traced the >>> >>>> >>> >>>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references >>> >>>> change? That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at >>> once, >>> >>>> rather than a patchwork? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Ian. >>> >>>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching >>> >>>> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue >>> here. >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> Talk-au mailing list >>> >>>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >>> >>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> >> URL: < >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/616a9529/attachment-0001.html >>> > >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------ >>> >> >>> >> Message: 4 >>> >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 17:13:04 +1000 >>> >> From: Ben Johnson <tangarar...@gmail.com> >>> >> To: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> >>> >> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> >>> >> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW >>> >> Message-ID: <c1b0a966-8138-40ea-852c-a8a56e55a...@gmail.com> >>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >>> >> >>> >> I agree this can be better coordinated, but not everyone uses or >>> reads this list. >>> >> >>> >> I have a particular interest in these new routes? (don't ask). >>> >> >>> >> B74 is already majorly unveiled at the Tuggerah junction with M1 - so >>> I turned B74 on in OSM. >>> >> http://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Special/MAB/563.jpg >>> >> http://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Special/MAB/558.jpg >>> >> >>> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vEehFafhUeo/UWnpzpBCuNI/AAAAAAAAALg/rKvL4389seo/s1600/IMG_3205.JPG >>> >> >>> >> We should expect large-scale coverplate removal any day now. RMS has >>> been waiting until end of school holidays, and also I believe for the >>> release of Sydway and UBD 2014 editions which apparently are now available >>> with new route numbers? so I think we're about to see big changes fast. So >>> brace yourselves. >>> >> >>> >> I'm going that way again tomorrow and will investigate B70 to see if >>> there's any action there yet. I've created a few route relations for alphas >>> in Central Coast and Newcastle region, but haven't set the ref tags yet >>> until there is on-ground signage in place. This will make it easier (when >>> the signs are unveiled) to select an entire route in JOSM and add the ref >>> tag. If you agree with this method then I'm happy to volunteer to continue >>> creating relations for the new routes. I have 5 weeks holidays starting >>> soon with plenty of spare time and I want to get back into contributing to >>> the project. >>> >> >>> >> What should become of the old routes? Should old_ref be retained, >>> should old route relations remain? >>> >> >>> >> Regard hierachies - have we agreed that all A routes are Trunk, and >>> all B routes are Primary? Should former the "State" routes (e.g. SR83 Old >>> Pacific Hwy from Gosford to Doyalson) currently assigned as a Primary road >>> now be lowered to Secondary as it loses its route number. >>> >> >>> >> Happy to help out - but I don't want to step on toes. >>> >> >>> >> BJ >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 03/05/2013, at 3:07 PM, Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> >>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the >>> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed. >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't see the purpose of this. I doesn't correspond to what is on >>> the ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for >>> navigation. Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be >>> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed routes >>> on the webpage. >>> >>> >>> >>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been >>> re-referenced is the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - >>> with perhaps an uncovered sign here and there. I traced the >>> >>> >>> >>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references >>> change? That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once, >>> rather than a patchwork? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ian. >>> >>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching >>> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Talk-au mailing list >>> >>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >>> >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >>> >> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> >> URL: < >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/fecea80f/attachment-0001.html >>> > >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------ >>> >> >>> >> Message: 5 >>> >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 21:00:04 +1000 >>> >> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> >>> >> To: Ben Johnson <tangarar...@gmail.com> >>> >> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> >>> >> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW >>> >> Message-ID: >>> >> <CALDa4YJeiNJcD-J3a=ywgi_fl3nm97or+gqnkewwjxchlwu...@mail.gmail.com >>> > >>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >>> >> >>> >> On 3 May 2013 17:13, Ben Johnson <tangarar...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> We should expect large-scale coverplate removal any day now. RMS has >>> been >>> >>> waiting until end of school holidays, and also I believe for the >>> release of >>> >>> Sydway and UBD 2014 editions which apparently are now available with >>> new >>> >>> route numbers? so I think we're about to see big changes fast. So >>> brace >>> >>> yourselves. >>> >> If you're fairly confident, I would be happy to live with the new >>> >> references a few weeks in advance, if that's what we decide. It is >>> >> primarily just the hotch-potch I'd like to avoid. >>> >> >>> >> What should become of the old routes? Should old_ref be retained, >>> should >>> >>> old route relations remain? >>> >> >>> >> I think where it is easy to retain the old_ref during the transition >>> we >>> >> should. However, these routes have changed so many times, and we >>> don't >>> >> currently have the schema to retain every variation old route, so I >>> see it >>> >> just as a transitional thing. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> Regard hierachies - have we agreed that all A routes are Trunk, and >>> all B >>> >>> routes are Primary? Should former the "State" routes (e.g. SR83 Old >>> >>> Pacific Hwy from Gosford to Doyalson) currently assigned as a >>> Primary road >>> >>> now be lowered to Secondary as it loses its route number. >>> >> >>> >> I think reflects our current agreement. And finally we'll be able to >>> have >>> >> a deterministic algorithm at least for trunk and primary. >>> >> >>> >> I imagine the RMS in their wisdom are going to call the Hume south of >>> >> Berrima the A31, rather than M31, so we'll have to make a call on >>> whether >>> >> we keep that as motorway. I'd personally be in favour of doing so. >>> >> >>> >> Ian. >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> >> URL: < >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/4696a56f/attachment.html >>> > >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------ >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Talk-au mailing list >>> >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >>> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> End of Talk-au Digest, Vol 71, Issue 2 >>> >> ************************************** >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Talk-au mailing list >>> > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talk-au mailing list >>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >> >>
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