Wow, good work. I suppose this will start a flood of localisation requests for other metro systems, this will probably be a good thing - it'll force our mapnik localisation to be made better! (maybe I could target it as a GSoC project for myself...)
Regards, Thomas (Edgemaster) David Earl wrote: > Back in November, in this thread: > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2009-November/004996.html > we were talking about the possibility of using the London Underground > roundel on map renderings. I said I would contact them. > > My first contact went unanswered, but I chased it up again recently and > after an email exchange I spoke to them on the phone as well. > > Yes, we have permission use it in principle, providing it is reproduced > per their design (which is the obvious red circle with a blue bar > through it). I have their official file. > > They also sent a set of design guidelines (as most > companies/organisations do when you want to use their logo). But these > are aimed at leaflets and stationery etc, not maps, a suprising omission > (they require, for example, 25% of the logo size as clear border all > round). I discussed this with them on the phone (this mail can serve as > a record of that conversation) and they said in our context it is OK to > just put a white border around it following the contour of the logo of > say 50%-100% the width of the ring/bar, rather like we do for text > captions now, just so it is distinctly separated from the background. > (They are going to think about revising their guidelines so it takes > this kind of use into account). > > I did point out that A-Z maps use their logo in similar contexts. What > we mustn't do is use a dark rule around it or, as A-Z and some others > do, put a rule around the whole blue bar as well. A-Z is infringing > their guidelines on the central area maps! On the smaller scale maps, > they (A-Z) are more or less right, but in some cases the white exclusion > zone is not present or very hard to see. > > So good news in principle. Whether we do it in practice is up to whoever > wants to play with mapnik, and whether the operator tags on LU stations > are consistent enough for this to be applied to LU and no other metro. I > could put in a trac request for it. > > N.B. I asked in the context of our Mapnik rendering. I see no problem in > TAH as well. But as CloudMade is a commercial company, I think it would > be unwise to just do it in CloudMade renderings (and likewise others) > without them approaching TfL themselves. There's a request form here: > https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/corporate/media/logos/default.asp > I don't think there would be a problem, they seem very friendly, and A-Z > is a precedent. > > I've appended below what I asked (their form ignored my newlines, sorry). > > David > > -------------------------- > I'm writing to ask you about the use of the London Underground roundel > logo to indicate tube station positions on a map produced for > OpenStreetMap. We know that this is copyrighted and trademarked and it > is important for the aims of our project that we don't infringe other > people's intellectual property. OpenStreetMap (www.openstreetmap.org) is > an initiative to create maps from scratch free of the restrictions > normally associated with maps. It is in effect a "wikipedia for maps". > There are two aspects to this: firstly the map data is stored in a > database in an encoded form, and that is OpenStreetMaps primary asset, > and is not an issue here; secondly, any number of different renderings > of style and content can be produced from that data, a key example being > the map that you see by default on the OpenStreetMap web site (we know > this internally as the "Mapnik rendering") as linked above. We have been > discussing on our mailing lists recently about how to represent metro > stations. At present Mapnik uses a generic off-blue square (for example, > Chancery lane, here: http://osm.org/go/euu4m6X7y- ). This applies > throughout the world. However, we'd like to customize this for > particular metro systems, and in London that should obviously be the > London Underground red and blue roundel instead of the blue square. So > my questions are: 1. Is this something we can just do, or do we need > permission to use the symbol? 2. Are you able to give permission for > this use? 3. Would using it require an acknowledgement? (This might be > impractical on the map itself, given the number of metro systems in the > world, let alone the number of other potentially customizable logos for > shops, hotels etc, but might be possible on a separately linked page). > Things to bear in mind: (a) our maps are licensed CCbySA > (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/), that is, in essence, > anyone can reproduce them free of charge providing the same restrictions > are applied to their copy ("share alike"), and freely available for > commercial and non-commercial uses. (b) there is no question of storing > the logo in the data itself, merely drawing it on a pictorial > representation of the data; that would involve storing a copy in or with > the software that generates the rendering (which I think could be > accompanied by acknowledgement/restriction/ copyright/trademark > information as appropriate) (c) this is a service to map consumers: it > must surely be of benefit to TfL that map users can identify Underground > stations on maps. (d) maps may be reproduced on paper and on other > websites, either by copying, or deep linking to the original (e) other > renderings styles and software may want to do the same thing. (f) we > cannot enter into a license agreement that would compromise the ability > of people to use and reproduce the maps freely, though in a license > agreement that permits the use we need may be possible. We'd much prefer > a simple permission if possible though. (g) I'm just enquiring on behalf > of our mailing list users at present. If something more formal is > needed, we'd have to decide how to manage that. (h) it is unlikely we > could justify paying for this, especially in view of the precedent it > might set for the huge range of other possible features on the map. I > imagine that e.g. Starbucks would be more than happy for us to use their > logo to show their store locations on the map were we to ask them, as > essentially free advertising, and I do hope TfL might be able to take > that position also. Many thanks, David Earl > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb _______________________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
