Also thanks from my side Mike.
As of today the help site seems to be working again but only a few days
back it had been seeing the same problem again for several weeks. Who
knows what is causing these periodic failures. So I'm looking forward to
your monitoring and any possible short-term solution.
But even if this immediate JS/usability problem can be fixed there are
still so many smaller annoyances that before long we should still look
into migrating the site to a newer software.
cheers,
Tobias
Am 05.07.2020 um 10:16 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk:
Thanks to entire Ops group for work on this and other things!
4 Jul 2020, 07:35 by m...@teczno.com:
Hi Everyone,
Since Tobias Wrede started this thread in May, the Ops group has
discussed the Help site during our regular meetings. We understand
the importance of the Q&A site and acknowledge that the software
running it is old and under-maintained.
In addition to the possibility of moving the site to a new
platform like the ones mentioned in this thread, we’ve also
verified that all past Q&A content can be archived [1] regardless
of future platform and talked about potential underlying causes of
the frontend script problems some users have experienced [2].
Currently, the Ops group has two initial conclusions:
1) We aren’t able to confirm the extent of the Javascript problems
described in this thread because we lack a front-end monitoring
that would provide this information. Our existing monitoring
extensively covers the underlying server, shenron [3], alongside
superficial uptime measurements [4].
2) The Q&A server is shared by Trac and SVN services which are
being deprecated over the next month [5]. Deprecating Trac and SVN
will allow us to better isolate and observe problems that Q&A is
experiencing, and perhaps solve them by removing these competing
services on one of OSM’s older pieces of hardware.
Over the next two months, I’ll be watching the thread [2] for
reports of new failures. If these continue past August when SVN
and Trac have been deprecated, we’ll add monitoring to better
understand their cause and determine what work may be needed to
fix or migrate OSM’s Q&A site.
-mike.
Links:
1. https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202006-A (archiving report
starts at line 173)
2.
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/74831/why-does-the-add-a-new-comment-button-sometimes-not-work?
3.
https://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap.org/shenron.openstreetmap.org/index.html
4. https://uptime.openstreetmap.org
5.
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2020-July/030958.html
Ops Meeting Minutes:
- https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202005-B (July 1)
- https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202006-A (June 4)
- https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202007-A (May 22)
On May 20, 2020, at 12:28 AM, Tobias Wrede
<l...@tobias-wrede.de> wrote:
Hi,
we have several channels in OSM to facilitate discussions and
support. First touch point for new users is often
help.openstreetmap.org. Questions relating to mapping in
general, tagging, editors, development, OSM based applications
are asked there and get answered in most cases.
The site is based on OSQA, a software which has not been
maintained in some time. Some application errors have surface
in the past but had to be ignored since no fixes are coming
from OSQA any more. Until now we could live with that. They
were annoying but not critical. There are open tickets on OSM
github to move the help site to some other framework
(https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/149,
https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/377) but
there isn't exactly an abundance of volunteers to take care of
that.
Usability of help.openstreetmap.org has now seriously worsened
over the past few days with some js error popping up for
longer and longer times
(https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/74831/why-does-the-add-a-new-comment-button-sometimes-not-work).
Buttons to support formatting questions and answers are gone,
comments cannot be added and moderation functions (reporting,
converting questions to comments etc.) are not working anymore.
If this continuous we can shut down the site soon. Even if
this problem got resolved somehow it's only a matter of time
until a new problem arises. The site provides a low entry
hurdles place to ask questions that can be solved by simple
answers. I'd hate so see it gone.
I'm neither a programmer who could help out on the technical
side nor am I involved in OSM organization and politics to
have an idea on how this could be sorted out. Question around:
Can we find someone to take care of the technical side? Can we
involve any of the OSM organizations to find, maybe pay,
someone? Does the community even find it worthwhile keeping
the site?
cheers,
Tobias
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