>From the Jargon file (http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/ASCII.html) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For each character, common names are given in rough order of popularity, followed by names that are reported but rarely seen; official ANSI/CCITT names are surrounded by brokets: <>. Square brackets mark the particularly silly names introduced by INTERCAL. The abbreviations "l/r" and "o/c" stand for left/right and "open/close" respectively. Ordinary parentheticals provide some usage information. # Common: number sign; pound; pound sign; hash; sharp; crunch; hex; [mesh]. Rare: grid; crosshatch; octothorpe; flash; <square>, pig-pen; tictactoe; scratchmark; thud; thump; splat. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Personally, I've head it called 'gate' as well
Cheers, Martin -- Martin Thompson BEng(Hons) CEng MIEE TRW Conekt Stratford Road, Solihull, B90 4AX. UK Tel: +44 (0)121-627-3569 - martin.j.thomp...@trw.com ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc From - Sun Mar 23 05:35:50 2003 Return-Path: <owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> Received: from mtiwmhc14.worldnet.att.net ([127.0.0.1]) by mtiwmhc14.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20030321054956.stos373.mtiwmhc14.worldnet.att....@mtiwmhc14.worldnet.att.net>; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:49:56 +0000 Received: from ruebert.ieee.org ([140.98.193.10]) by mtiwmhc14.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc14) with ESMTP id <200303210549551140012bhie>; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:49:55 +0000 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by ruebert.ieee.org (Switch-2.2.5/Switch-2.2.5) id h2L5eqA03030 for emc-pstc-resent; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:40:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Kevin Richardson" <kevin.richard...@ieee.org> To: "Jacob Schanker" <schan...@frontiernet.net>, "Bill Lyons" <b...@lyons.demon.co.uk>, <j...@aol.com>, <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org>, <treg@world.std.com> Subject: RE: Use of the # button on telephone dial List-Post: treg@world.std.com Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 16:43:23 +1100 Message-ID: <nebbihdflagbliikmlbkmehbdpaa.kevin.richard...@ieee.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <006001c2ef52$48d572a0$6401a8c0@JacobSchanker> Sender: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Kevin Richardson" <kevin.richard...@ieee.org> X-Resent-To: Multiple Recipients <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> X-Listname: emc-pstc X-Info: Help requests to emc-pstc-requ...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Info: [Un]Subscribe requests to majord...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Moderator-Address: emc-pstc-appro...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: <nebbihdflagbliikmlbkmehbdpaa.kevin.richard...@ieee.org> In Australia the keypad button or key is widely know as the "hash key". Best regards, Kevin Richardson Stanimore Pty Limited Compliance Advice & Solutions for Technology (Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services) Ph: 02-4329-4070 (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070) Fax: 02-4328-5639 (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639) Mobile: 04-1224-1620 (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620) Email: kevin.richard...@ieee.org This material (this message and the information contained in all attachments to this message) is confidential and/or privileged information and is intended only for the addressee/s named above. Any unauthorised dissemination, copying, use of or reliance upon this material by persons or entities other than the addressee/s named above is prohibited. If you receive this material in error, please notify Stanimore Pty Limited and destroy all copies (electronic and hardcopy) of this message and all attachments immediately. -----Original Message----- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Jacob Schanker Sent: Friday, 21 March 2003 1:33 PM To: Bill Lyons; j...@aol.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; treg@world.std.com Subject: Re: Use of the # button on telephone dial A curious point: I noticed that the correspondence on this topic has all avoided using a name for the # key. That's a good thing too, because it has different names in various countries. In the US, we tend to hear it called "pound sign". That is clearly ridiculous to the British, who bloody well know what a pound sign is. The British call it a "hash mark". (please correct if I am wrong) I think Australia has a different take on it, but don't recall offhand what it is. (The bang sign??) The "correct" name for the # sign is "octothorpe", but nobody, except maybe a typesetter, uses that. This is all pertinent, in a way, because in dealing with regulations on a worldwide level, and trying to get user instructions acceptable (and perhaps even understandable) we need to be acutely aware of language and usage differences. Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc From - Sun Mar 23 05:35:30 2003 Return-Path: <owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> Received: from mtiwgwc22.worldnet.att.net ([127.0.0.1]) by mtiwgwc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20030321024425.mxjb21638.mtiwgwc22.worldnet.att....@mtiwgwc22.worldnet.att.net>; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 02:44:25 +0000 Received: from ruebert.ieee.org ([140.98.193.10]) by mtiwgwc22.worldnet.att.net (mtiwgwc22) with ESMTP id <2003032102442202200mfv5qe>; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 02:44:23 +0000 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by ruebert.ieee.org (Switch-2.2.5/Switch-2.2.5) id h2L2XSM02172 for emc-pstc-resent; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:33:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006001c2ef52$48d572a0$6401a8c0@JacobSchanker> From: "Jacob Schanker" <schan...@frontiernet.net> To: "Bill Lyons" <b...@lyons.demon.co.uk>, <j...@aol.com>, <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org>, <treg@world.std.com> References: <101...@lyons.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: Use of the # button on telephone dial List-Post: treg@world.std.com Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:33:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Jacob Schanker" <schan...@frontiernet.net> X-Resent-To: Multiple Recipients <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> X-Listname: emc-pstc X-Info: Help requests to emc-pstc-requ...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Info: [Un]Subscribe requests to majord...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Moderator-Address: emc-pstc-appro...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: <006001c2ef52$48d572a0$6401a8c0@JacobSchanker> A curious point: I noticed that the correspondence on this topic has all avoided using a name for the # key. That's a good thing too, because it has different names in various countries. In the US, we tend to hear it called "pound sign". That is clearly ridiculous to the British, who bloody well know what a pound sign is. The British call it a "hash mark". (please correct if I am wrong) I think Australia has a different take on it, but don't recall offhand what it is. (The bang sign??) The "correct" name for the # sign is "octothorpe", but nobody, except maybe a typesetter, uses that. This is all pertinent, in a way, because in dealing with regulations on a worldwide level, and trying to get user instructions acceptable (and perhaps even understandable) we need to be acutely aware of language and usage differences. Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc From - Sun Mar 23 05:35:05 2003 Return-Path: <owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> Received: from mtiwgwc12.worldnet.att.net ([127.0.0.1]) by mtiwgwc12.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20030320230602.gny10383.mtiwgwc12.worldnet.att....@mtiwgwc12.worldnet.att.net>; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:06:02 +0000 Received: from ruebert.ieee.org ([140.98.193.10]) by mtiwgwc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwgwc12) with ESMTP id <2003032023055901200cbu8me>; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:06:00 +0000 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by ruebert.ieee.org (Switch-2.2.5/Switch-2.2.5) id h2KMmBI26980 for emc-pstc-resent; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:48:11 -0500 (EST) List-Post: treg@world.std.com Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:40:19 GMT From: b...@lyons.demon.co.uk (Bill Lyons) Message-Id: <101...@lyons.demon.co.uk> To: j...@aol.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, treg@world.std.com Subject: Re: Use of the # button on telephone dial Organization: The Claude Lyons Group, UK X-Mailer: PCOak 0.1 Lines: 23 Sender: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: b...@lyons.demon.co.uk (Bill Lyons) X-Resent-To: Multiple Recipients <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> X-Listname: emc-pstc X-Info: Help requests to emc-pstc-requ...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Info: [Un]Subscribe requests to majord...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Moderator-Address: emc-pstc-appro...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: <101...@lyons.demon.co.uk> In message <12c.26201efa.2bab8...@aol.com> j...@aol.com writes: > Sorry if this is a little off-topic, but is anyone aware of any central > office features, or other network features, that use the # button on the > standard telephone DTMF keypad? I know of some features that use the * > button, but I am unaware of any that use #. > > I have been asked about assigning this button to a special feature, but I > want to make sure that there are not other conflicting uses in some > countries, or any prohibitions on its use. In the UK, the # button is used heavily for network features, usually with the meaning of "cancel an instruction" or "terminate an instruction string". For example, the command to divert is typically *21*number# where # is the terminator. The command to cancel diversion is #21#, where the first # indicates cancel and the second is the terminator. The command *#21# means "interrogate diversion status". Many other network features use the # button in a similar way. -- Bill Lyons - b...@lyons.demon.co.uk / w.ly...@ieee.org ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc From - Sun Mar 23 05:34:58 2003 Return-Path: <owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> Received: from mtiwgwc16.worldnet.att.net ([127.0.0.1]) by mtiwgwc16.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20030320214142.nclp695.mtiwgwc16.worldnet.att....@mtiwgwc16.worldnet.att.net>; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:41:42 +0000 Received: from ruebert.ieee.org ([140.98.193.10]) by mtiwgwc16.worldnet.att.net (mtiwgwc16) with ESMTP id <20030320214141016002ntfve>; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:41:42 +0000 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by ruebert.ieee.org (Switch-2.2.5/Switch-2.2.5) id h2KLNsQ04047 for emc-pstc-resent; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:23:55 -0500 (EST) From: j...@aol.com Message-ID: <12c.26201efa.2bab8...@aol.com> List-Post: treg@world.std.com Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:23:41 EST Subject: Use of the # button on telephone dial To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, treg@world.std.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10637 Sender: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: j...@aol.com X-Resent-To: Multiple Recipients <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> X-Listname: emc-pstc X-Info: Help requests to emc-pstc-requ...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Info: [Un]Subscribe requests to majord...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Moderator-Address: emc-pstc-appro...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: <12c.26201efa.2bab8...@aol.com> Hello All: Sorry if this is a little off-topic, but is anyone aware of any central office features, or other network features, that use the # button on the standard telephone DTMF keypad? I know of some features that use the * button, but I am unaware of any that use #. I have been asked about assigning this button to a special feature, but I want to make sure that there are not other conflicting uses in some countries, or any prohibitions on its use. Thanks, Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 j...@randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc From - Wed Mar 19 07:24:40 2003 Return-Path: <treg-appro...@world.std.com> Received: from mtiwgwc21.worldnet.att.net ([127.0.0.1]) by mtiwgwc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20030319103454.cfgd20715.mtiwgwc21.worldnet.att....@mtiwgwc21.worldnet.att.net> for <matt.campane...@worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:34:54 +0000 Received: from theworld.com (pcls1.std.com[199.172.62.103]) by mtiwgwc21.worldnet.att.net (mtiwgwc21) with ESMTP id <2003031910345302100le60he>; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:34:53 +0000 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by TheWorld.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2JATWqk026367; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 05:29:35 -0500 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by europe.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA11355 for treg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 05:23:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from TheWorld.com (pcls2.std.com [199.172.62.104]) by europe.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09913 for <t...@facteur.std.com>; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 05:15:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailc.telia.com (mailc.telia.com [194.22.190.4]) by TheWorld.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2JAF5th022007 for <treg@world.std.com>; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 05:15:07 -0500 Received: from kalleanka (h118n1fls33o829.telia.com [213.65.106.118]) by mailc.telia.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h2JAE3rL004600; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:14:03 +0100 (CET) X-Original-Recipient: treg@world.std.com From: "Roger Magnuson" <ro...@tgc.se> To: "Marko Radojicic" <mar...@turnstone.com>, "'Andre, Pierre-Marie'" <pierre-marie.an...@intel.com>, <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org>, <treg@world.std.com> Subject: RE: RE2: Dark Fiber and Regulation List-Post: treg@world.std.com Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:12:18 +0100 Message-ID: <ndbblkigklgdgamafbhjkebbecaa.ro...@tgc.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2EE08.67C97440" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <33df29a0c402d411b70500508b1047310366d...@email.turnstone.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: treg-appro...@world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: "Roger Magnuson" <ro...@tgc.se> X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: <ndbblkigklgdgamafbhjkebbecaa.ro...@tgc.se> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2EE08.67C97440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dark Fiber and RegulationJust a comment; "harm to the network" is not the only justification for imposing type approval requirements. As far as I know, GigE interfaces require MII approval in China. Roger Magnuson TGC Communication AB -----Original Message----- From: treg-appro...@world.std.com [mailto:treg-appro...@world.std.com]On Behalf Of Marko Radojicic Sent: den 18 mars 2003 19:24 To: 'Andre, Pierre-Marie'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; treg@world.std.com Subject: RE: RE2: Dark Fiber and Regulation Pierre-Marie, Your alternate meaning is actually the same thing in terms of regulatory compliance. To the best of my knowledge, there are no regulatory Telecom approvals required for GigE services - for any country. This makes sense as what type of "Harm to the Network" can a point-to-point fiber-optic transceiver produce? I can only think of two "harms" that could happen from an IEEE802.3 compliant transceiver: - Receiver overload if the transmitted optical power was too high for the receiver. That would be instantly detected, I believe, as an LOF alarm. - Wavelength interference if the same channel was used in a DWDM link. That would be really difficult to produce! In both these cases, the problem is instantly recognizable, non-destructive, and more a function of the installation than the product design. No harm to the network would occur. That interesting link that Chris Baird sent just confirms the same thinking. That being said, it is in your company's best interest to do some amount of unit-level qualification vs. the IEEE802.3 standard - in particular the jitter characteristics and eye measurements. There are many ways of messing up the board design such that the module is no longer producing in-spec waveforms! Cheers, Marko -----Original Message----- From: Andre, Pierre-Marie [mailto:pierre-marie.an...@intel.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 1:12 AM To: Marko Radojicic; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; treg@world.std.com Subject: RE2: Dark Fiber and Regulation Marko, Thanks for your comments. My understanding is that a "Dark Fiber" has an other meaning : a service offered by a Telco or a service provider to extend the usage of your fiber LAN for example to increase the distance from one mile to 100 or more. In this case the fiber adapter, in my case it is a Gigabit Ethernet, will be connected to a leased line belonging to a Telco or a Service provider. So I would think as far as compliance some countries could require a Telecom approval on top of the EMC/Safety. Right ? Pierre-Marie -----Original Message----- From: Marko Radojicic [mailto:mar...@turnstone.com] Sent: lundi 17 mars 2003 18:41 To: Andre, Pierre-Marie; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; treg@world.std.com Subject: RE: Dark Fiber and Regulation Pierre-Marie, There is no distinction between "Dark" and "Lit" fiber as far as standards compliance. I suspect that you will find the majority of dark fiber isn't actually dark but certain (DWDM) wavelengths on it are lit (in-use) and others are dark (not in-use). For example on a particular link, 5 DWDM channels may be in-use while 35 are dark. If you are meeting the appropriate IEEE 802.3x spec, I don't know of anything further that you would need to do. ...Marko -----Original Message----- From: Andre, Pierre-Marie [mailto:pierre-marie.an...@intel.com] Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:28 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; treg@world.std.com Subject: Dark Fiber and Regulation Hi there, Could somebody bring some light (!) on the so called "Dark Fiber" offering. Here is one definition I found : Dark fiber is optical fiber infrastructure (cabling and repeaters) that is currently in place but is not being used. Optical fiber conveys information in the form of light pulses so the "dark" means no light pulses are being sent "Dark fiber service" is service provided by local exchange carriers (LECs) for the maintenance of optical fiber transmission capacity between customer locations in which the light for the fiber is provided by the customer rather than the LEC. My question : The LAN product I am looking for regulation is conform to IEEE 802.3z,so the interface have been defined. Is there any standards or technical specifications for the "Dark Fiber" infrastructure ? Should I ask to each Dark Fiber Provider to get this info ? Best regards Pierre-Marie Andre Senior Approval Engineer ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2EE08.67C97440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Dark Fiber and Regulation</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @font-face { font-family: Garamond; } @page Section1 {size: 612.0pt 792.0pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } SPAN.EmailStyle19 { FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond; TEXT-DECORATION: none } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue> <DIV><SPAN class=150410810-19032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Just a comment; "harm to the network" is not the only justification for imposing type approval requirements. As far as I know, GigE interfaces require MII approval in China.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=150410810-19032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=150410810-19032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Roger Magnuson</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=150410810-19032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>TGC Communication AB</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> treg-appro...@world.std.com [mailto:treg-appro...@world.std.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Marko Radojicic<BR><B>Sent:</B> den 18 mars 2003 19:24<BR><B>To:</B> 'Andre, Pierre-Marie'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; treg@world.std.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: RE2: Dark Fiber and Regulation<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Pierre-Marie,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Your alternate meaning is actually the same thing in terms of regulatory compliance.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>To the best of my knowledge, there are no regulatory Telecom approvals required for GigE services - for any country. This makes sense as what type of "Harm to the Network" can a point-to-point fiber-optic transceiver produce? I can only think of two "harms" that could happen from an IEEE802.3 compliant transceiver:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>- Receiver overload if the transmitted optical power was too high for the receiver. That would be instantly detected, I believe, as an LOF alarm.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>- Wavelength interference if the same channel was used in a DWDM link. That would be really difficult to produce!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In both these cases, the problem is instantly recognizable, non-destructive, and more a function of the installation than the product design. No harm to the network would occur.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003></SPAN><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>That interesting link that Chris Baird sent just confirms the same thinking.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>That being said, it is in your company's best interest to do some amount of unit-level qualification vs. the IEEE802.3 standard - in particular the jitter characteristics and eye measurements. There are many ways of messing up the board design such that the module is no longer producing in-spec waveforms!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Cheers,<BR>Marko</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=312055817-18032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Andre, Pierre-Marie [mailto:pierre-marie.an...@intel.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 18, 2003 1:12 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Marko Radojicic; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; treg@world.std.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE2: Dark Fiber and Regulation<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Garamond color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Marko,</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Garamond color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Thanks for your comments.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Garamond color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">My understanding is that a "Dark Fiber" has an other meaning : a service offered by a Telco or a service provider to extend the usage of your fiber LAN for example to increase the distance from one mile to 100 or more.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Garamond color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">In this case the fiber adapter, in my case it is a Gigabit Ethernet, will be connected to a leased line belonging to a Telco or a Service provider.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Garamond color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">So I would think as far as compliance some countries could require a Telecom approval on top of the EMC/Safety.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Garamond color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Right ?</SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P><B><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Pierre-Marie </SPAN></FONT></B></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Marko Radojicic [mailto:mar...@turnstone.com] <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> lundi 17 mars 2003 18:41<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Andre, Pierre-Marie; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; treg@world.std.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: Dark Fiber and Regulation</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Pierre-Marie,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">There is no distinction between "Dark" and "Lit" fiber as far as standards compliance. I suspect that you will find the majority of dark fiber isn't actually dark but certain (DWDM) wavelengths on it are lit (in-use) and others are dark (not in-use). For example on a particular link, 5 DWDM channels may be in-use while 35 are dark.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you are meeting the appropriate IEEE 802.3<EM><I><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">x</SPAN></FONT></I></EM> spec, I don't know of anything further that you would need to do.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">...Marko</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Andre, Pierre-Marie [mailto:pierre-marie.an...@intel.com]<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, March 17, 2003 5:28 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; treg@world.std.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Dark Fiber and Regulation</SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond"><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->Hi there,</SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Could somebody bring some light (!) on the so called</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=Garamond color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">"Dark Fiber" offering.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Here is one definition I found :</SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Dark fiber is optical fiber infrastructure (cabling and repeaters) that is currently in place but is not being used. Optical fiber conveys information in the form of light pulses so the "dark" means no light pulses are being sent</SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">"Dark fiber service" is service provided by local exchange carriers (LECs) for the maintenance of optical fiber transmission capacity between customer locations in which the light for the fiber is provided by the customer rather than the LEC.</SPAN></FONT> </P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">My question :</SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">The LAN product I am looking for regulation is conform to IEEE 802.3z,so the interface have been defined.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Is there any standards or technical specifications for</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=Garamond color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">the</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=Garamond color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">"Dark Fiber" infrastructure ?</SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Should I ask to each</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=Garamond color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Dark Fiber Provider to get this info ?</SPAN></FONT> </P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Garamond color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond">Best regards</SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><A name=""><B><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Pierre-Marie Andre<BR></SPAN></FONT></B></A><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Senior Approval Engineer</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN> </SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2EE08.67C97440--
