DAVEH: > I've always imagined Jesus to be like that. There > were times when he wasn't so polite, as in the Temple > chastising the money changers. However, I'm not Jesus. > Nor do I feel compelled (yet) to exercise righteous > indignation. I can't even imagine condemning one of > my Brothers or Sisters to hell, regardless of their > faults. I'll leave that to the Lord. In the meantime, > I have enough on my plate just learning to forgive those > who wrong me.
What you describe here is an effect of the conscience being under the guilt of sin. This problem is not specific to Mormonism, but also in Protestantism. When the Spirit of God cleanses you on the inside, only then can you become bold as a lion. DAVEH: > It seems to me that your street preaching background > makes you comfortable in the confrontational environment. > I'm just the opposite. I never understood why some folks > like to practice 'get in your face' religion. There must > be some kind of thrill or satisfaction in wielding the > sword of God that causes SPers to enjoy doing battle with > the forces of evil. I never was involved in street preaching until almost ten years ago. I don't think it is my street preaching background that makes me comfortable, but rather a number of other factors. One is that I have appreciated those in my life who have spoken directly to me and candidly to me. I like sharp rebuke toward me as an individual better than flattering words. I would much rather someone tell me to my face what a dirty rotten scoundrel I am and why than be sweet to my face but inside think I'm the worse man who he ever met. Another factor involved in this is simply that my conscience prods me to do something when I see injustice. This seems to be the logical next step once my personal house is in order. God didn't clean me up simply for me to enjoy it, but he expects me to bear fruit and stand up for righteousness in a perverse world. I can assure you that I get no personal satisfaction out of wielding the sword of God in this way. I am much more like Jonah. When I think God wants me to go do something, I start looking for a boat to take me the other way. It is very uncomfortable for me to put myself out there in front of people and make a foolish spectacle of myself. It is very humbling. Nevertheless, we must do that which God calls us to do. A stewardship is placed upon me which I must fulfill. David Miller wrote: >> but if you are wanting to understand why some people are >> offended by you, I think it does lie in this polished >> veneer that causes them to misjudge you at first. DAVEH: > That seems like their problem, rather than mine. Oh, I surely agree that they have a problem here, but I don't think it is exclusively a problem on one side or the other. When we know that there is a communication problem, we should try to do what we can to better the situation, even if we are not at fault. This is just the nature of being sensitive to those who hear us. Even Jesus sometimes said nothing at all because of his audience. DAVEH: > Of all people, I thought you understood me to the core. I think I do understand you pretty well. I'm just trying to explain what I have observed in your interaction with others primarily, but also with a few examples where even I was met with unexpected reactions. This is just part of human communication. DaveH wrote: > I guess I just don't understand why I am so hard to read. > I've made no secret of my LDS biases and proclivities. > I don't understand what it is I say or do that makes other > Tters misunderstand my existence in TT. Well, when you harp on the fact that you are hear to learn what Protestants believe, to the new person who has not been on TruthTalk, that sounds like you are new and have never talked with a Protestant before. Think about me right now going to a Mormon list and saying, "I'm here foremost to learn what Mormons believe." Well, I could not do that. It would be disingenuous of me. I know a lot about what Mormons believe. Technically, it would be true that I would learn more about what Mormons believe, but for me to say that, well, I know that there would be Mormons who think I am a Protestant searching for something more, and they would be inclined to convert me to their religion. Do you see what I mean? DaveH wrote: > Apparently some may think that there is > no room in TT for any opinions/believes > other than their own. That's true, and that has contributed to the problem. It is difficult for many Christians to imagine that a Christian would setup a list that was not a "Christian list" that forbade any speech that was outside of Christ. Nevertheless, this is not the only thing that has hindered communication between you and others. I think your harping on being here to learn what Protestants believe has misled many as well. DaveH wrote: > I suppose my comfort could cause the discomfort > of others. I'll have to ponder that. Yes, this is very true! I have received private emails from people telling me that something is spiritually wrong if a Mormon feel comfortable to be on the list. They view this as something faulty. Interestingly, you seem to be the only Mormon that sticks around about like I'm the only Street Preacher who sticks around. LOL. Nevertheless, I do think you are onto something here with the idea that your comfort here is discomforting to others. Maybe some others on the list would like to comment on this idea. DAVEH: > If somebody were to attack your belief/faith in Jesus, > you evidently would welcome it. I'm the opposite. I > don't have a lot of time to chase such frivolous pursuits > (from my perspective). Yes, we are different in this regard. I have sometimes found my ideas adjusted or changed because of exercises like this. Sometimes I have gotten out of cultish doctrine because of it. When I have been on the right side, my faith is strengthened because I see more evidence of it being true. Yes, my faith is much more bolstered by people disagreeing with my faith than by those who express agreement with it. DaveH wrote: > Because of my faith in the Lord, I have no interest > in listening to a Muslim try to convert me away from > my beliefs. And I would very much desire to engage a Muslim in such conversation. The problem is that almost all of them have the same attitude as you do toward such a conversation, so getting into serious conversation with a Muslim in this way is rare. I think they would rather strap a suicide bomb on one of their kids to make their point. DAVEH: > I'm curious.....how did those other LDS folks behave? > Were they courteous and polite in their disagreements > with you? Maybe the Church has that effect on it's > adherents...... I'm sure there are rowdy Mormons, but > I don't see them. I've never met a rowdy Mormon. I've seen them get exuberant when they walked away after a talk, obviously excited about all the "good points" some of them made in the conversation, but in face to face exchange, they are polite to a fault (my personal perspective). I am convinced that the church has taught them to act this way. Sometimes when I have tried to lead into serious discussion, something that centers on Scripture, the response comes back, "well, if you are not open to hearing us, no amount of talking about the Bible will change anything. God and the Holy Spirit has to show it to you. We don't want to talk with you anymore. If God doesn't show it to you, you won't be able to see it." They were very polite, but they shunned anything that remotely looked like a challenge to their belief system. I thought you might be a little different, but deep down, there is still that root of "I'm going to believe in Mormonism because I choose to believe in Mormonism, and I don't care about any evidence that might show me that this would be a wrong decision on my part." DAVEH: > you must have a very small library.....and it > sounds like it may be predominantly pro-Mormon! > I've got far more anti-Mormon books than you have > pro-Mormon!!! Yes, it is small. I probably have about 1200 physical books, and about that many more on electronic media like CD-ROM. The Mormon aspect is only about 24 books, with more than half definitely pro-Mormon, many that try to be objective historical accounts, and a few that are decidedly contrary to Mormonism. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
