[TruthTalk] The value of history

[Judy Taylor]

From: "Wm. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> NKJ Colossians 2:3 -- "in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."   jt: "and of Christ in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" Same as "I (Christ) am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" noone comes to the Father but by me or "for ALL the promises of God in him (Christ) are yea and in him amen to the glory of God the Father" (2 Corinthians 1:20), do you need more?  I hope you never hear an ass speak or a rock cry out. You might just think your stomach's growling [:>) jt: Now Bill that's not very nice coming from one who calls himself a brother in Christ.  The scriptures above all point to the person of Christ as "all inclusive" aside from the teachings of the Nicene Fathers and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Let's get over it, Judy; if I'm not the enemy, why do you insist on treating me like I am? jt: If you think I treat you as an enemy Bill did you not have any discussion or dialogue at all in your classes? Did everyone just blindly follow Gary Deddo? judyt God allows the devil to raise up heretics to make his people study From: Judy Taylor From: "Wm. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy, you wouldn't even know the word "person" were it not for the early fathers. It didn't exist before them. They are the ones who invented it.   jt: Oh? And did the Nicene Fathers also come up with Colossians 2:3 also?   Why can't you be glad they created it? By coining the word, they gave you a gift: the ability to say things about God that could otherwise only be intuited.   jt: Bill we need to give credit where credit is due. I am using spiritual words to communicate spiritual truths and both of these come to me by way of the Holy Spirit. Not the Nicene Fathers.   Please, Judy, I'm not the enemy. The early fathers are not the enemy. We are your brothers. We love you. Let us shower you with gifts.    jt: I'm aware that my warfare is not with flesh and blood Bill so I don't count you as an enemy even when we are not in agreement. judyt   God allows the devil to raise up heretics to make his people study   From: Judy Taylor From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear Kevin and Judy, We are having problems communicating because of two faulty assumptions. Following are two assumptions that need to be examined:   1.  Does God's Word equal The Bible?  My answer:  No.    jt: My question then is, where are you going to find it then? Where IYO is the present day Sanhedrin seated?   The Bible is God's Word, but God's Word is not the Bible. God's Word includes much more than the Bible.   jt: Would you say that God's Word is a person? and would you believe this independent of the Nicene Fathers?   The problem here is that when you read in the Bible, "the Word" or "the Word of God," you automatically think it is talking about the Bible. It is not.  The Bible did not even exist when these words were written down.   jt: What about "scriptures" - did the scriptures exist when these words were written?   Example: Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (Romans 10:17). This does not mean that faith comes by reading the Bible, but I suspect that you both have this in mind when you read this passage.  The Word of God in this passage refers to the oral word of God, not the written word of God.  It refers to the Word of God spoken by a man preaching the gospel under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.    jt: Would you say the apostle Paul is one of these men who spoke the Word of God publicly?  If so then why would he call the Bereans more honorable because they checked his preaching/teaching by the written Word daily? [Acts17:11]   Think about it.  The passage cannot possibly mean "reading the Bible" or even someone else reading the Bible for you.   jt: Why not?  Jesus said His Words are spirit and they are life; and I for one, believe him and have found them to be more trustworthy between the covers of my Bible than from the mouths of some speakers.   2.  There is a difference between my use of the phrase "PRIMARY SOURCE" and the word "AUTHORITY."  The Bible is an authority FOR THIS EARTH, but it is NOT a primary source.  The Bible itself teaches this in many places, including the passages already shared.  If you want more explanation, I will be glad to answer questions asked by those who are interested.   jt: Whether or not you consider the Bible to be a primary source David, it is what God has given to reveal Himself to us. Jesus told the ppl in the first century that if they would not believe Moses and the prophets they would not believe though one rose from the dead. You may see the Holy Spirit as primary source but He is the one who works with rather than against scripture to lead us into ALL truth.   Kevin asked for another authority other than the Bible.  The Bible itself teaches that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim. 3:15).  That makes the church an authority too.  There are other authorities mentioned by the Bible.  If anyone is interested, just ask about it.  It's all in the Bible, but even those who study the Bible the hardest seem to miss it.   jt: The Church are the ones who do the will of the Father - and how do we know the will of the Father? I've seen ppl following spirits they claim is the holy spirit and I've heard more heresy from the pulpits around.  You are teaching against being Berean David and your personal belief appears to me to be more along the lines of tradition, mysticism and RC'ism. judyt   God allows the devil to raise up heretics to make his people study