Perry wrote: > DavidM, do you believe in the pre-mortal > existence of human spirits?
No, but I don't outright dismiss it either. The truth is that I do not know when exactly the human spirit is created, nor do I exactly know for sure when it is united with the physical body. My best guess is that God creates the spirit and puts it into the physical body at the point when the baby takes its very first breath. The anti-abortionists hate me for thinking this way, but that is my perspective based upon my objective reading of Scripture and my knowledge of biology. Perry wrote: > According to the LDS, and this is the viewpoint from > which DavidM argues this, these pre-mortal spirits are > products of sex between a god that was formerly a man, > and his several wives? Do you believe that, too? No, for various reasons, I believe that gender is something peculiar to our physical existence here. I do not believe that technically God or angels are either male or female. In other words, although we should think about God in the masculine, there is no "mother God" or "angels with wives" etc. I do not believe that sexual union is known in the spirit world, and I do not believe that we will have anything to do with sexual unions after the resurrection. Gender serves a purpose here in this life while we live in a glass darkly, not in the next life where we will know even as we are known. Perry wrote: > If Origen, Martyr, or whoever else believed in pre-mortal > existence, why did that idea not last in the church? It was always a minority viewpoint. Origen was considered a heretic by many for believing in it, but then, he also believed that stars themselves were "beings" of a higher sort, and he quoted Scripture in support of the idea! :-) My point previously was only that this question was not something that has come up only because of Joseph Smith. The idea of whether or not there is a soul, where the soul comes from, what happens to the soul after death, is the soul immortal, and many other questions have been discussed much throughout the history of Christianity. Perry wrote: > Why has that not become a central part of > Christian theology? The idea that the soul is created at conception, or perhaps passed on through the sperm or egg from Adam, are assumptions that are made. I don't think Christian theology has taken much of a stand on the issue because the arguments for or against these ideas don't have a whole lot of foundation, either in the Bible or elsewhere. They are all highly speculative arguments. I'm not sure anybody is very confident of the answers to these questions. I think our culture as a whole, if it even believes in a soul, would tend to assume that the soul begins with each new person because we 1) don't have any memories prior to our birth and the soul after death is thought to carry its memories forward, as illustrated in the story of Dives and Lazarus, and 2) we tend to follow science which does not believe in any soul at all and so sees a person's "creation" as beginning with conception. Perry wrote: > ... I have to give more weight to the scriptures > than anyone or anything else, and I do not see a > case for pre-mortal existence of humans as spirits > in the text. But what you do not seem to realize is that you assume it not to be true simply because the Scriptures do not firmly establish it. Someone might just read in Scripture that God rested the seventh day from all his work and conclude that all souls that would ever be created were created prior to that time. You might think that argument is weak, but Scripture really does not seem to be firm in arguing against the idea. My perspective is that if the authority of Scripture cannot be brought to bear to dismiss the idea of a pre-mortal existence of human souls, then we should be open to hearing from others concerning their arguments for or against the idea. We should be open to considering evidence from other sources, whether historical, revelatory, or logical in nature. If we are dismissive of the idea of a pre-mortal existence, we should have a better argument than the argument of silence of Scripture. Just because Scripture does not confirm the truth of a statement does not mean that the statement is false. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
