I am supposed to be at the shop. But the Texas game is too big a temptation.
This is a good post and I want to continue the thread up until the time we start in on each other :-)
And I am praying for your ability to take advantage of the doors that seem to be opening for you at the university. Once past the rebuking part, you are certainly qualified to talk their talk. A great opportunity for you and the Lord.
Jd
-----Original Message-----
From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:51:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
John wrote: > Do you see that you argue for not knowing > while using a example you believe illustrates > that you do, in fact, know? I do in fact know. My argument is not that I don't know or that none of us know, but rather that based upon what is written in that one verse, we don't know. My point is about proper exegesis. Do you understand what I am saying? John wrote: > But, back to the 10:14 question -- I do not > think it fair to illustrate a question about an > action with a comment about an emotion. > Plug in a couple of definitions and see what you > get. I am being happy ( I am experiencing joy > and pleasure) compared to "I am being made holy." Well, you do have a good point here. An emotion is different than sanctification, so I concede that my analogy was poor in this regard. Let's go back to the word "sanctified." Let's talk about Jesus at age 12. "Jesus is sanctified." Should it be this, or should it be, "Jesus is being sanctified"? Would you agree with Gary that Christ's sanctification is incomplete and transitory? John wrote: > Do you believe that "sanctification" implies becoming > something that was not previously the case, in our case? Yes. John wrote: > "Made or make" is an integral aspect of "set apart, > holy." Separate one from the other and you do not > have the definition of "sanctification." I'm not in complete agreement with this. Sanctification is not a process per se, but there is a state of being sanctified once one is sanctified. :-) John wrote: > In the biblical message, we are set apart in the > sense that we made holy. As I see it, the present > tense AND the passive voice demand the reading > "being made holy.' I think the problem here is being dogmatic about how many first year text books define the present tense. Most of the instruction for first year students involves trying to help them understand the aorist tense, a tense which we do not have in English. To accomplish this, teachers generally try to get students to understand the type of action defined by the aorist tense, as opposed to the present tense. So the teaching goes along the lines of how the aorist tense describes action that is simple and punctiliar, as opposed to the present tense, which defines the action as continuous and repeated. This is simply a guideline for general approach for the beginning student. As students become more familiar with Greek and read it on their own, it does not take long for them to find examples where this rule does not hold true. The truth is that there is a broad range of semantic meaning for any particular syntax that one might consider. While sometimes a knowledge of Greek helps us get confirmation or refutation of a particular idea, in many cases it does not. Case in point, in this particular situation, I think you and Bill Taylor are over-emphasizing certain basic rules of Greek interpretation, trying to make an air tight case where there is none. This is one of those situations where a little knowledge of Greek can be more dangerous than no knowledge of Greek. Now going back to your translation here, "being made holy." You have introduced a new verb which does not exist in the Greek. I'm talking about your insertion of the word "made." It is one thing for you to be wanting to force the view that present tense always indicates continuous, repeated action. It is quite another to insist on adding a new verb. Who else do you know who translates it this way except you? The Bible in Basic English actually add the word "made" too, but they omit the word "being" so it does not read like yours. Some other translations for your consideration: Heb 10:14 (ALT) For by one offering He has perfected for all time the ones being sanctified. (ASV) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (BBE) Because by one offering he has made complete for ever those who are made holy. (Bishops) For with one offeryng hath he made perfite for euer them that are sanctified. (CEV) By his one sacrifice he has forever set free from sin the people he brings to God. (DRB) For by one oblation he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (EMTV) For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. (ESV) For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. (GB) For with one offering hath he consecrated for euer them that are sanctified. (Geneva) For with one offering hath he consecrated for euer them that are sanctified. (GNB) With one sacrifice, then, he has made perfect forever those who are purified from sin. (GW) With one sacrifice he accomplished the work of setting them apart for God forever. (HCSB) For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified. (HNV) For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. (ISV) For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. (KJV) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (KJV-1611) For by one offering hee hath perfected for euer them that are sanctified. (KJVA) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (KJVR) For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. (LITV) For by one offering He has perfected in perpetuity the ones being sanctified. (MKJV) For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified. (MRC) For by one offering He has brought to the goal perpetually for all time those who are sanctified. (MSG) It was a perfect sacrifice by a perfect person to perfect some very imperfect people. By that single offering, he did everything that needed to be done for everyone who takes part in the purifying process. (Murdock) For by one offering, he hath perfected for ever, them who are sanctified by him. (NASB) For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. (WEB) For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. (Webster) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (WNT) For by a single offering He has for ever completed the blessing for those whom He is setting free from sin. (YLT) for by one offering he hath perfected to the end those sanctified; Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. 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