On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:01 PM, Paul Speed <psp...@users.sourceforge.net>wrote:
> Yeah, this is the pretty classic separation. It's basically the conceptual
> difference between "managing by walking around" and "management by
> exception".
>
> On a forum, I only look at the stuff I'm interested in... if I even bother
> to remember to go to the site. I'm not active enough with gradle so I'd
> probably never visit unless I needed something.
>
> For e-mail, I just next,next,next,next through the unread messages (I
> understand some e-mail clients don't give you a nice key for this which I
> find unfathomable ;)). It takes a few seconds and sometimes I see something
> interesting that I otherwise wouldn't have drilled into.
>
> If you are already viewing e-mail through a web page then I can see how it
> makes no difference. In a real web client, I can skim through a hundred
> messages in about 20 seconds.... it's a big deal. That same thing would
> take up to an hour on a web site. No time for that.
>
> Notifications from the forum are nice when they are working. Routinely
> this sort of thing goes down unnoticed, messages are missed, etc...
I'm confident that we can provide a reliable notification mechanism for our
forum. This is a must have. As many of us here at Gradleware will rely on a
notification mechanism by email any problems with that would be soon
discovered.
> and without being able to respond through e-mail that's sometimes the one
> extra hurdle that prevents a response ("Gee, what login did I use again...
> oh, never mind.") This is why a list->forum bridge is appealing to some
> communities.
>
I see your point. I mean I personally couldn't live without a password
manager anymore. And GS allows you to use your Twitter and Google accounts
for logging in. This means for some people that they will reply because it
is so easy instead of bothering to subscribe to a mailing list.
Replying via email would be cool. I would love to see that feature. It does
not easily allow to vote or describe your emotions ;) but I guess many
folks could live with that. I'm not sure if this is a planned feature. At
least you have a link in the rss/email notification for replying. All in
all, even without that feature, I still think it is a big progress provided
the notification works as expected.
Hans
>
> I follow exactly two forums right now. One I setup (and the e-mail
> notifications are always dying) and the other that I'm just heavily involved
> in (but would _love_ if the e-mail notifications actually worked). In both
> of those cases, getting the forum users to switch to a mailing list would
> actually be a problem because more than half are not technically inclined...
> but I suffer daily just the same. ;)
>
> -Paul
>
>
> On 9/13/2011 8:15 AM, Andrew Thorburn wrote:
>
>> Mmmm... My own preference is generally for forums, as I don't tend to
>> be heavily involved with any given community so I vastly prefer it if
>> I can sign up for a forum and just get the email notifications for the
>> topics I am actively participating in. The fact that mailing lists
>> send me everything (with no way to cut out that which I'm not
>> participating in) doesn't result in me being overly fond of mailing
>> lists. It's not so bad for ones with fairly low traffic, but for
>> others it would be really unpleasant (e.g. the Linux Kernel). I'm sure
>> that I could, with some amount of effort, get Gmail to auto-mute
>> threads that I'm not actively participating in, but I'd prefer not to
>> have to go that effort for every mailing list I need to deal with,
>> especially if I'm just asking one question about something fairly
>> specific...
>>
>> I can certainly understand why people would prefer mailing lists, and
>> this thread has brought up a few things I hadn't really thought of in
>> that regard, but it looks like there's an almost insurmountable gap
>> between what people who prefer mailing lists want, and what people who
>> prefer forums want out of the whole deal.
>>
>> Just my thoughts on what I prefer.
>>
>> - Andrew
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Paul Speed
>> <psp...@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/13/2011 4:38 AM, Luke Daley wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 13/09/2011, at 9:14 AM, Jeppe Nejsum Madsen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hans Dockter<hans.dockter@**gradleware.com<hans.dock...@gradleware.com>>
>>>>> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> So this forum is planned to be a primary entry point for all kind of
>>>>>> things.
>>>>>> We also want it to be deeply integrated with the other tools we are
>>>>>> using.
>>>>>> In that respect it is much better for the newbie. But the way we plan
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> it will also make it very useful for the advanced users and hopefully
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> stay involved. We will definitely provide the input that makes it
>>>>>> interesting for them to stay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For me this is an important piece in our effort to improve
>>>>>> communication
>>>>>> with the community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me just outline how I currently participate (here and elsewhere).
>>>>>
>>>>> I follow the mailing lists and glance through the postings, reading a
>>>>> few interesting posts, but can (I try to convince my self :-) follow
>>>>> status, any major issues etc. I can do this for 30+ communities in
>>>>> <30min using the same email program (if there are no large topics etc).
>>>>>
>>>>> If the only interface is web based, I will not read it on a daily
>>>>> basis, it's just too slow. I will only go there if I had a problem.
>>>>> This
>>>>> in turns mean I will not answer any posts that I knew the answer to,
>>>>> never figure out clever ways to do things etc. because I would never
>>>>> see
>>>>> it unless I actively googled it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Juts my 2c....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The new forum has the option of sending email notifications for all new
>>>> postings, or all new postings and all new replies.
>>>>
>>>> Here's an example of the email notifications:
>>>> https://skitch.com/ldaley/**f2t53/new-idea-proposal-dont-**
>>>> show-skipped-tasks-inbox<https://skitch.com/ldaley/f2t53/new-idea-proposal-dont-show-skipped-tasks-inbox>
>>>>
>>>> If you elect to only receive notifications of new topics, for any topic
>>>> that interests you you can click the “Notify me when people reply” to
>>>> subscribe to that thread.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> There are people who like forums and there are people who like mailing
>>> lists. Though, respectfully, telling e-mail preferrers that they can get
>>> notifications is a little like telling forum preferrers that they already
>>> have that since the mailing list has a web-based archive.
>>>
>>> It's just too bad there wasn't a way to make both work. While it's a
>>> little
>>> kludgy, I've seen it done in other communities with some kind of bridge.
>>>
>>> You will definitely lose people when the mailing list dies. You will
>>> probably gain some folks on the forum (though anyone who couldn't figure
>>> a
>>> mailing list out is going to be totally lost in groovy+gradle, frankly...
>>> so
>>> good luck with that in the case of "easier to use". ;))
>>>
>>> I may try it... but I'm sort of leaning towards not bothering. Which I
>>> know
>>> doesn't amount to much. But I have a feeling that's the way every e-mail
>>> preferrer will feel... a little bit like they don't amount to much.
>>>
>>> Grumble-grumble, wah, wah, etc. ;)
>>> -Paul
>>>
>>>
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