VACList Digest Sunday, December 22 2002 Volume 03 : Number 050
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html Topics in Today's Digest: Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement Re: [VACList] 1964 Land Yacht Overlander Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement Re: [VACList] Re: water heater voltage Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement [VACList] Transmissions Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement Re: [VACList] Transmissions Re: [VACList] Transmissions Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement RE: [VACList] 1964 Land Yacht Overlander ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 06:13:29 -0800 From: Rik & Susan Beeson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement My feelings EXACTLY. Now I just need to find a trustworthy mechanic/shop to work on it... Best regards, Rik Mike Nelson wrote: >PLEASE! Do yourself a favor, fix it right the first time or you risk the >chance of destoring a very expensive and hard to find block and crank.I am a >30 year journeyman mechanic. Trust me. >----- Original Message ----- > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 09:22:26 -0500 From: "Scott Scheuermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] 1964 Land Yacht Overlander Most likely the axles are getting weak after 38 years. Rubber only lasts so long. Even though they can be expensive I would not pass on the trailer for that reason. Start with the major mechanicals first. Check the frame, axles (others can tell you what to look for with the axle), seal any leaks, repair the floor (epoxy or replacement). Then have fun! Scott - ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > My question is: What should I start on to see if there is a valid reason to abandon the renovation plan? I feel like I can handle pluming, electrical and such since I am a mechanical contractor. I see notes from time to time about axle replacements. What drives this issue? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 08:32:24 -0700 From: "Mike Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement Can you e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I want to share some experience. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik & Susan Beeson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 7:13 AM Subject: Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement > My feelings EXACTLY. Now I just need to find a trustworthy mechanic/shop > to work on it... > > Best regards, > > Rik > > Mike Nelson wrote: > > >PLEASE! Do yourself a favor, fix it right the first time or you risk the > >chance of destoring a very expensive and hard to find block and crank.I am a > >30 year journeyman mechanic. Trust me. > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text > > To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please go to > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 10:53:16 -0500 From: "James Greene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Re: water heater voltage Alan, what's your converter? If it's an Intelipower model, the output is filtered. I don't know but I have my doubts about the ' 74 Univolt. If that's what you have run the wires to the battery. The battery is the filter. That's what I did even though I have the Intelipower converter. Jim Greene ' 68 Tradewind - ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:45 Subject: [VACList] Re: water heater voltage > Hey folks! > > I recenlty installed an Atwood water heater I found on Ebay! > The stainless door swapped easily! > Any way I thought I bought a standard pilot unit but recieved a Auto light > unit. > Love the idea of switching it on from inside on cold mornings! > > My dilema is the "filtered DC current" they expect it to be wired wired to. > I know it's been mentioned in the past but what exactly do I need to wire it > too? > I shudder to think about asking a "RADIO SHACK flunky" what to use. > BEEN THERE DONE THAT!!!! > > thanks for any advise in advance. > > AlanT > Phoenix AZ > 74 safari > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text > > To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please go to > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 10:07:04 -0600 From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement I wasn't intending the cobble be permanent, just enough to get it home to a familiar mechanic at least cost. As for longevity, I've noticed some early motor home engines have not had long lives. I suspect that's been due to their owners running them very hard expecting the motor home to cruise as fast as a car with the same sized engine. The extra weight and wind friction of the motor home overworks the engine leading to premature engine failure. Gerald J. - -- Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer. Reproduction by permission only. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 10:38:50 -0600 From: "DOUG & VIRGINIA STANLEY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Transmissions We don't have much experience pulling Airstreams, just bought a 1970 29' to restore, but we have well over a million miles pulling large heavy loaded horse trailers and another million miles cross country with a tractor trailer. A manual transmission will not hold up over the long haul. If you haul occasionally over fairly flat terrain it will probably be ok. The cost of rebuilding an automatic transmission vs a clutch and pressure plate will change your mind for you. The clutch and pressure plate are much cheaper. I will admit the convience of an automatic is much nicer in heavy stop and go traffic, but going downhill in steep mountain roads with an automatic transmission has always made me nervous. I grew up driving in the mountains of Colorado always pulling some kind of load. Your choice should be based on how often you will haul and the total mileage you will haul every year. We have a '92 Dodge 3/4 ton diesel with 400,000+ miles and had the automatic transmissi! on rebuilt 2 years ago. There are no new transmissions for this truck (Dodge didn't make any). This truck is our horseshoeing rig and we put 45 -60,000 miles a year on it with a lot of heavy weight in the back. We also have a 1988 Ford 1 ton diesel, original manual transmission, 425,000+ miles, first new clutch 2 years ago. This old Ford is our haul truck and we just can't wear it out. The main thing to remember is if you are going to haul 3-5 days a week every week then a manual transmission is the only way to go. If you are going to haul 3 times a year then go with an automatic and you will probably be ok. Doug and Virginia Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 12:47:55 -0500 From: "Jim Dunmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement Rik, Gerald and I were both conjecturing on possibilities of getting the MH to your home so you could find a local mechanic to R&R and rebuild your engine. Neither of us was all that serious (I know that *I* wasn't), and certainly didn't recommend that you perform such a patch job and call it 'good'. Regarding pre-lubers: I feel that they're of little value on an engine that normally sits a week or less. They might be worth-while on outfits that are idle a large percentage of the time. Like your MH probably will be. An alternative might be to run synthetic oil in the engine. I've heard that they really stick to the surfaces for long periods of inactivity. There was a discussion about prelubers on one of these forums a couple of years ago, with a link to an outfit that manufactures them. The company used a couple of adaptors to: get oil from the pan, and pump it into the oil filter area. One of their claims to fame (IIRC) was their special check valve to prevent the engine's oil pressure from simply backfeeding the preluber and bypassing the engine. This is a potential trouble spot, according to them. Long ago, I saw a writeup on a preluber that used some sort of small pressure vessel/accumulator, something like a propane cylinder. It had a check valve and solenoid valve, so the engine itself would pump oil into it while it was running; the check valve would hold the pressurized oil and the solenoid valve would release it back to the engine just before cranking. This seems like an elegant solution to me. Another alternative would be to install a kill switch in the ignition system to deacivate the spark. If you'd not used the rig for some time, you could open the switch and crank the engine for 5 or 10 seconds, then close the switch to start. It would be best if you could also prevent fuel from flowing during that time, but that can be accomplished with a couple of different methods, depending on whether the engine is fuel-injected or carburated. Again, if you use the rig every week, don't worry about a preluber. It would be an excellent idea to try to figure out exactly why that one rod bearing failed in the first place. <<Jim>> <<http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer>> <<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> <<lower SE Michigan, USA>> <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> - -----Original Message----- From: Rik & Susan Beeson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, December 21, 2002 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement >Thanks for the suggestions, but I want it FIXED, not patched. I expect >this will be my last motorhome, and I want the engine to outlive me. To >that end, I will install a pre-luber on whatever engine I end up getting >for it. > >Best regards, > >Rik > >Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer wrote: > >>It might make for continuing adventure, but it may be possible to drop >>the pan, unhook that one rod, polish the journal with a strip of emery >>cloth, then fit a suitable replacement rod bearing insert (after >>measuring the journal diameter and clearance with plastigage and a >>standard sized insert), and drive the old engine home. Just a loose rod ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 12:55:34 -0500 From: "Jim Dunmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Transmissions D&V, I think you meant to say (3rd line below) that "an automatic won't hold up over the long haul". FWIW: I agree 100%. You make an excellent point about downhill towing, also. If you have a Diesel truck, you'll probably want an exhaust brake. If you install one of those, you need to install addons to keep the TCC locked and/or add more cooling to the auto trans. If the transmission is properly geared and the driver knows what he/she is doing, a clutch is a lifetime proposition, IMO. The only way you ruin a manual clutch is abusing it. Somewhere around here, I have the clutch disk from one of my VW Rabbits that was replaced at 170,000 miles, due to one of the springs being broken. (a not-uncommon problem in the Rabbits) The disk lining showed NO wear when compared to the new one. <<Jim>> <<http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer>> <<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> <<lower SE Michigan, USA>> <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> - -----Original Message----- From: DOUG & VIRGINIA STANLEY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:35 PM Subject: [VACList] Transmissions >We don't have much experience pulling Airstreams, just bought a 1970 29' to restore, but we have well over a million miles pulling large heavy loaded horse trailers and another million miles cross country with a tractor trailer. A manual transmission will not hold up over the long haul. If you haul occasionally over fairly flat terrain it will probably be ok. The cost of rebuilding an automatic transmission vs a clutch and pressure plate will change your mind for you. The clutch and pressure plate are much cheaper. I will admit the convience of an automatic is much nicer in heavy stop and go traffic, but going downhill in steep mountain roads with an automatic transmission has always made me nervous. I grew up driving in the mountains of Colorado always pulling some kind of load. Your choice should be based on how often you will haul and the total mileage you will haul every year. We have a '92 Dodge 3/4 ton diesel with 400,000+ miles and had the automatic transmissi! >on rebuilt 2 years ago. There are no new transmissions for this truck (Dodge didn't make any). This truck is our horseshoeing rig and we put 45 -60,000 miles a year on it with a lot of heavy weight in the back. We also have a 1988 Ford 1 ton diesel, original manual transmission, 425,000+ miles, first new clutch 2 years ago. This old Ford is our haul truck and we just can't wear it out. The main thing to remember is if you are going to haul 3-5 days a week every week then a manual transmission is the only way to go. If you are going to haul 3 times a year then go with an automatic and you will probably be ok. > >Doug and Virginia Stanley >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text > >To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please go to >http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 12:12:56 -0600 From: "David R. Warner, Jr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Transmissions At 10:38 AM 12/21/2002 -0600, you wrote: >A manual transmission will not hold up over the long haul. If you haul occasionally >over fairly flat terrain it will >probably be ok. The cost of rebuilding an >automatic transmission vs a clutch and pressure plate will change your >mind for you. > The clutch and pressure plate are much cheaper. I sam afraid I really do not understand what was meant by this. Is the idea that the long term cost of the manual is less even though it will require more repair than an automatic? <center>=========================================================== </center> <center>David R. Warner, Jr. 19507 485th Lane McGregor, Minnesota 55760 Phone 218-426-3900 [EMAIL PROTECTED] </center> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 12:15:50 -0600 From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Motorhome engine replacement In my experience, the cold start engine conditions depend more on how hot the engine was when shut down. If its been run hard for more than 30 miles, the oil tends to be quite thin and to run out of the bearings to make the next cold start stiff. Then is when the preluber should do the most good. In this relatively north country and further north its common to heat the engine block or oil to make cold weather starts easier, e.g. to make it take less starter effort to move oil and the make the oil less like glue in the bearings. Some say that starts, hot or cold, are what wear an engine. I'm sure that's true of the crankshaft and camshaft bearings. But the modern oils and modern bearings seem to last quite a long time anyway. I'm not sure that a preluber would have any effect on cylinder, piston, and ring wear. One might find that the 454 engine has been assembled wrong with inserts backwards to block their oiling, or the crank was ground undersize to clean up a bad casting or forging and the insert wasn't change from standard, or some oil hole problem. I had a rear axle that had a tablespoon of drill chips that were stirred up only by heavy (for that car) towing that then got into the bearings. Something left from the factory. Could be a drill chip in the crankshaft didn't get washed out and plugged the oil passage to that one journal. For sure, knowing what caused the bad rod bearing, unless the rest are worn nearly as much, is important to a successful rebuild. Some factory faults could cause the failure to repeat. Gerald - -- Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer. Reproduction by permission only. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 23:23:05 -0600 From: Kevin D Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [VACList] 1964 Land Yacht Overlander Greetings Clay and Judy! Welcome to the world of Vintage Airstreaming and 1964 Overlander ownership. You will surely get a tremendous amount of pleasure from your new acquisition. I have owned my '64 Overlander for almost eight years, but went on my first camping trip in the trailer when it was brand new. The original setup would have been a black water tank mounted at the center rear of the coach with the dump valve centered on the rear bumper. There was no gray water tank, but the owner's manual suggests that opening the gate valve to allow gray water to back up into the black tank was one method to deal with situations where gray water needed to be contained. I generally carry a blue tank when trailering with my Overlander. Two things that you might want to check would include the following: 1.) The wheels would have originally been split-rims. If they are still on the trailer, the general consensus is that these should be replaced with appropriately rated trailer wheels. I purchased appropriately rated trailer wheels for my Overlander from my Good Year tire dealer when he installed my new Good Year Marathon ST radials. 2.) When checking the brakes, you might find that only one axle has brakes. Notes and documents that came with my coach indicated that only one axle had brakes from the factory (brakes on the second axle were optional). The original owners of my coach added brakes on the second axle in 1965. When looking for leaks, the two that caused me the most trouble on my coach was one located in the vicinity of the rear one-stop service compartment - - it was primarily caused by faulty sealing around the rear clearance lights and a funneling effect from the cover on the rear bumper compartment cover. Once both of these areas were well sealed, the area has been water tight. The second problematic leak was one that resulted in a puddle in front of the refrigerator. It turned out that the sealing around the refrigerator vent was the culprit. I am currently awaiting the verdict from my Airstream dealer regarding the condition of the axles on my coach. I discovered a new crack in the interior skin above the entry door which leads me to believe that my axles are likely on the way out. You can down-load and print the VAC Membership Application at: http://www.airstream.net/application.pdf Good luck with your Overlander! Kevin Kevin D. Allen 1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban 1978 Argosy Minuet 1975 Cadillac Convertible (towcar in-training) WBCCI/VAC #6359 - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 3:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VACList] 1964 Land Yacht Overlander We have recently become the owners of a 1964 Overlander. We have been Airstreamers for quite a while and just saw this unit on the side of the road. About 10 minutes later we towed away our new second RV. Our plan is to restore the unit. The trailer is reasonably sound and has all of the original interior. The major flaw is the rear bath plumbing.....it appears to have been renovated for permanant setup. I plan to install two tanks and gate valves as we have in the 1992 Excella. My question is: What should I start on to see if there is a valid reason to abandon the renovation plan? I feel like I can handle pluming, electrical and such since I am a mechanical contractor. I see notes from time to time about axle replacements. What drives this issue? The original documents are in the trailer and we bought it within five miles of where is was sold new in 1964. The exterior is almost perfect. The tires were rotten but since we live 6 miles from where we found it, I towed it home at 10 MPH with no problems. Should I start with brakes and bearings and work my way up? The undershell aluminum is in good shape with the exception of the rear under the bathroom. I stock sheet aluminum in my warehouse, so I can fix this. Final question for today-----the floor is Ok but a little spongy in a couple of places. What if I remove the carpet and then put 1/4" underlayment down and re-carpet? Is this viable? Stop to see us::::: Clay & Judy 2623 Who do you see to join the VAC group? ------------------------------ End of VACList Digest V3 #50 **************************** When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
