VACList Digest Wednesday, April 2 2003 Volume 03 : Number 150
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html Topics in Today's Digest: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest V3 #149 [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve [VACList] airstream body supported by floor?? [VACList] flooring question Re: [VACList] flooring question Re: [VACList] Wire question Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Re: [VACList] airstream body supported by floor?? Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Re: [VACList] Wire question [VACList] Rewiring the 59 Re: [VACList] Wire question [VACList] Bathroom removal Re: [VACList] Rewiring the 59 [VACList] Re: [VAC] License Plates/Tabs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 11:45:21 -0600 From: Dan Weeks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest V3 #149 My apologies! Dan Weeks 75 Argosy 26 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (VACList Digest) > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:00:03 -0800 (PST) > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: VACList Digest V3 #149 > > Folks, > > A reminder that this is not a place to sell your items. Please use the > classifieds section of our website for that purpose. On this list please > limit yourself to briefly mentioning that you have an item for sale in the > classifieds. If you happen to see an item in your area (not owned by you) > that is for sale feel free to mention it on the list, otherwise please keep > it in the classifieds. In case you don't know the website is > www.airstream.net > > Thanks, > Monitor Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:43:07 -0500 From: "Bill Mosko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Does anyone know why a Moem shower valve would have two lines from both hot & cold going to the suply line.? One is 1/2" copper & the other is 3/8' copper. This 1969 Sovereign 31' will never be used as self contained, rather, it will only be parked in utility furnished facilities. Are two lines required & for what purpose ? Also where can I get instructions & parts list for disassembly & reassembly of rear bath fixtures? Many Thanks, Bill Mosko 69, 31' Air Stream ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:34:20 -0800 From: "Oliver Filippi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Call 1-800 BUY MOEN [1-800=289-6636]. Their customer service is very good. Oliver Filippi - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Mosko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:43 AM Subject: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve > Does anyone know why a Moem shower valve would have two lines from both hot > & cold going to the suply line.? One is 1/2" copper & the other is 3/8' > copper. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:16:31 -0500 From: "Scott Scheuermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve No the plumbing will not have 2 sets of lines to everything just so you could use "city water" vs water in your tank. Scott - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Mosko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Does anyone know why a Moem shower valve would have two lines from both hot > & cold going to the suply line.? One is 1/2" copper & the other is 3/8' > copper. > > This 1969 Sovereign 31' will never be used as self contained, rather, it > will only be parked in utility furnished facilities. Are two lines required > & for what purpose ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:54:31 -0500 From: "James Greene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Scott, my SWAG to Bill's question was that it was probably an "improvement" installed by a previous owner with too much time and too little smarts who wanted to separately access two different water supplies. Totally useless as you said. Jim Greene ' 68 Tradewind - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Scheuermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 14:16 Subject: Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve > No the plumbing will not have 2 sets of lines to everything just so you > could use "city water" vs water in your tank. > > Scott > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Mosko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Does anyone know why a Moem shower valve would have two lines from both > hot > > & cold going to the suply line.? One is 1/2" copper & the other is 3/8' > > copper. > > > > This 1969 Sovereign 31' will never be used as self contained, rather, it > > will only be parked in utility furnished facilities. Are two lines > required > > & for what purpose ? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text > > To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please go to > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:55:11 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VACList] airstream body supported by floor?? i remove the rear floor and the body droped less than a 1/4 inch it looks like the floor is holding up the body this is bad planning on airstream part if you replace the floor the body could come down some did not have any problem jacking backup using strength of rear compartment door frame for strength have any suggestions jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:10:25 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VACList] flooring question there should be a set of instructions for putting in any or part of a floor 1. should the flooring in the rear where a 4x8 piece can not be put in should the hot water heater be removed and put in 16 inch wide and 90 inch long or use the two frames for supports for a joint this could be done in all the airstream on a joint on the two frames except in front were full pieces can be use it was easy to remove couch and refrigerator side which is the door side but will be more difficult to remove the other side sink, closet, and heater any suggestion here the entire edge of the 1970 24 foot trade wind has damaged flooring about 2 to 5 inches from wall ( rooting ) jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 20:35:11 -0500 From: Daisy Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] flooring question jerry, I'm not an expert, I only had a mess in my rear and under the front windows. When AS builds the trailer, they put the floor on the frame, lay a channel around the edge that is bolted to the floor and then put the top part on. You're right, the floor does help the strength of the trailer. And their assembly method is good for them, but not for those who need to repair the floors. (most of us with oldies) with that in mind, we try not to remove the floor part that is under the channel, but do various things to repair the floor. FIRST make sure it is not leaking anywhere ! 1. Get a product called GIT ROT, a 2 part solution that soaks into the crumbley wood fibers and makes them stronger than the original wood. 2. make patches of plywood and use Git ROT, or other epoxy stuff to seal and strenghten. 3. cover the hole with plywood, or make a tricky patch screwed from underneath. 4. recover the floor with whatever. The plywood floor doesn't have to be beautiful, just solid. ( my favorite is cork ) If you just have to have that plywood brand new, you will probably have to do a frame up restoration and lift the top part of the trailer off the floor. No fun as far as I'm concerned. Go see the archives for stuff about that. Good luck, Daisy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 20:49:38 -0500 From: Chris Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Wire question Heres a question for the electricians (and tornado spotters and old engine people , you know who you are ...! ) Is there anything inherently wrong with cloth covered 12 w G wire in my 63 ? Its copper , I replaced the chewed up runs , is it a waste of time and resources to replace it as a matter of course if it looks good , or will it last another 40 years ?. I also replaced a recepticle with a grounded one , then realized it was the first in line , should have used a ground fault there , woopsie . Most all of the interior is exposed short of the rear crown , which wont be coming down . So I can get at most of the wire if need be , nows the time . But it takes time , especially taping it back up . This chemo I`m on makes me lazy plus in a hurry ! And I`m tired of the insulation stuck to the shell , even tho the old is out it still has bits everywhere, want to get fresh fiberglass and skin in .! Have been progress in other areas , got some new marker lights from airstream dreams , fast shipping but they werent kidding when they say the pathfinder replacements have thin bases , they also need a different hole for the wire , but they will be fine , my lenses are mostly shot , not to mention the insides . thanks Chris Elliott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 19:17:00 -0800 From: Charlie/Betty Burke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Unless someone has replumbed the coach there is no need for two sets of lines to the shower valve. The city water feed at the roadside of the rear bumper connects into the same plumbing as the output of the water pump at the freshwater storage tank. That way all the remaining plumbing works irregardless of the input source. Charlie Bill Mosko wrote: > Does anyone know why a Moem shower valve would have two lines from both hot > & cold going to the suply line.? One is 1/2" copper & the other is 3/8' > copper. > > This 1969 Sovereign 31' will never be used as self contained, rather, it > will only be parked in utility furnished facilities. Are two lines required > & for what purpose ? > Also where can I get instructions & parts list for disassembly & reassembly > of rear bath fixtures? > Many Thanks, > Bill Mosko > 69, 31' Air Stream > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text > > To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please go to > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:22:32 -0700 From: "Forrest McClure" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] airstream body supported by floor?? Jerry, The floor is a structural support component of the overall design. If you've taken out a sizable section, and it seems you have, the real problem is not just getting new plywood into the channel the old edge fit into, but getting bolts through the new plywood. You've gone this far, so you might as well do a frame off restoration. It will be the only way to replace the floor in a way that restores structural integrity. Good luck! Forrest ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:28:06 -0700 From: "Forrest McClure" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest shower valve Bill, I think I understand your question now. I think Moen simply provided two sizes of pipe to provide additional hookup compatibility. Choose the size you want to hookup to then cap the extras, or perhaps the extra lines can be unthreaded from the faucet and the holes plugged with the appropriate brass (threaded) plug. That's my thought on it anyway. Good luck! Forrest ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 20:37:36 -0600 From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Wire question I'd rather not do old engines, but I have. I'd rather not see tornadoes but I have. Copper lasts nearly forever. Its no worry. There is some worry about the wire insulation. In the ault days rubber was used and it deteriorates, faster when the wire runs warm from being loaded to its current rating. The life expectancy of the wire in your '63 depends on the life expectancy of the plastic insulation on the individual conductors. I'd check that by squeezing it with pliers. I'd compare that perceived toughness with that of modern romex conductor insulation. It won't be nearly as strong as a modern THHN nylon coated wire but if the original wire is to last another 40 years, it needs to be as tough as new wire insulation. The outer jacket of the romex does protect the conductor insulation from mechanical damage. Modern romex uses heavy paper and a plastic cover. Classic romex uses heavy paper, tar and fabric. All age. Marker lights with plastic bases still need to be modified so the ground is not dependent on compressing the plastic (which by definition flows to relieve pressure) or new lights won't be any more reliable than old lights. Then cover all the contact surfaces and the wiring connections with a bit of silicone dielectric grease (as used for modern ignition systems) to keep them from corroding. Especially the lamp bases. I little dab will save much future cleaning. Gerald J. - -- Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer. Reproduction by permission only. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:47:45 -0500 From: "Edward Emerick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Rewiring the 59 Hello All, I am getting ready to replace the wiring in the 59 Traveler and I am looking for some printed directions or diagrams. I plan on replacing all the 110 and 12 volt wiring and electrical components. ( plugs, lights, converter, wire, breakers). This is a modernization (to a point) of the electrical system while I have the interior walls out. Any detailed instructional resources would be appreciated. I completed the exterior lighting and electric brake rewiring project this past weekend. I was amazed when the original brakes worked when I got power to them! thanks again for the help. Ed WBCCI/VAC 4425 68 Sovereign 59 Traveler ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:13:19 -0500 From: "Jim Dunmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Wire question Chris, If the wire & insulation look good, I'd say "leave it in". If it looks shakey, replace it. You mention "chewed up runs"... what do you mean? Mice? Abrasion due to inadaquet protection from rubbing where it goes through ribs, or...??? <<Jim>> <<http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer>> <<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> <<lower SE Michigan, USA>> <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> - -----Original Message----- From: Chris Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [VACList] Wire question > >Heres a question for the electricians (and tornado spotters and old engine >people , you know who you are ...! ) > Is there anything inherently wrong with cloth covered 12 w G wire in my >63 ? Its copper , I replaced the chewed up runs , is it a waste of time and >resources to replace it as a matter of course if it looks good , or will it >last another 40 years ?. I also replaced a recepticle with a grounded one , >then realized it was the first in line , should have used a ground fault >there , woopsie . > Most all of the interior is exposed short of the rear crown , which >wont be coming down . So I can get at most of the wire if need be , nows >the time . But it takes time , especially taping it back up . > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:18:38 -0500 From: "Louis Joyner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Bathroom removal I've concluded that, with all that needs to be dealt with in the bathroom of the '64 Overlander, and bad floor in the last 18", it would be best just to remove it. I checked the archives, and didn't find much to guide me. A first, basic question: how does one remove the plastic trim around the top of the tub (and is that necessary?) Looks like it will just shatter. How do the cabinets in that area come out, too? I'm a great one for blundering through, but suggestions for tackling the project may save the precious ears of my children from shocking language. Another question: if the interior lights worked when plugged into land power one day, and only work off the battery one day and 700 miles later, do I have a dead Univolt, or something cheaper and harder to fix? The pump worked on 12 volt, and it is controlled by a different switch. Thanks Louis Joyner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:19:16 -0600 From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Rewiring the 59 Put in more outlets and circuits than were originally there. You'll need them. Put in GFCI outlets as the first on each run or GFCI breakers (the most expensive way to GFCI). Use three wire cable and grounded outlets to take modern plugs. Look up a recent (1998 or 2001) National Electrical Code and follow its requirements for the travel trailer. Before these NEC there were few safety code instructions for RV and its unlikely there has been an original wiring diagram preserved for the '59 Traveler. Gerald J. - -- Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer. Reproduction by permission only. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:20:51 -0800 From: Rik & Susan Beeson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Re: [VAC] License Plates/Tabs These things vary widely from state to state. I bought a $10 permit, good for as long as I need to make the trip, to bring my "new to me" Airstream motorhome from Alabama home to California. Since the motorhome turned out to have a bad engine (now being repaired), I'll get a LOT of time for my $10 -- from December 18th, when I first started out, until I finally get back to California. Then I have 10 days to get California registration. The permit is issued by California and is recognized by all states, and is good for a single one-way trip or a single round trip. Also, some states have partial-year registration for some vehicles - -- heavy trucks and trailers that I know of, not sure about motorhomes. But, as I said, there is WIDE variation from state to state. And your insurance agent would be the one to answer the part of your question about insurance. Some companies allow you to take off the liability part of your insurance (the expensive portion) if is is going to be parked. Best regards, Rik www.TRADESHOWSandEVENTS.com wrote: >Are there any "part-time" permit options for licensing >a Motorhome for the road, or any ideas for temporary >insurance etc? I live in Minnesota and the available >window of opportunity to drive up here is some what >limited to warmer months. > >Brad >'77 Argosy > > > ------------------------------ End of VACList Digest V3 #150 ***************************** When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
