----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Quantum Thermodynamics
> > I think you're right on this Paul, however you're unnecessarily rude as > > usual. > > > That's just your interpretation according to a POV of common social behavior. > That's a result of being programmed by society. What you refer to as > rudeness I > refer to as bluntness with very little attached emotions. On occasion I > practice the art of tiptoeing around ones emotions, which is what society > refers > to as common social skills, but it requires unnecessary time and energy. Less time and energy than it takes to explain your "bluntness", plus you put people off so you may deprive yourself of potentially useful discussions and critics. > > Anyway I don't think that rectifying the hot resistor noise with a diode > breaks 2LoT. Does a photovoltaic cell (which is a diode too) break 2LoT when > converting the thermal energy radiated by a 6000°C black body to electricity? > In > both cases there is a cold source somewhere, not everything is at the > temperature of the hot source. > > > Michel, once again there is a vast difference between a law and an > interpretation of such a law. If you adhere to a stricter interpretation of > the > 2nd law then yes, the solar cell breaks such a law. At 300 K a flat 1 x 1 > m^2 > of material emits 203 nW of radiation between 1600 nm and 400 nm on one side. > New technology allows photovoltaic cells to efficiently capture up to 1600 nm > wavelengths. The 203 nW is a conservative figure since I did not include > ultraviolet photovoltaic cells. How much of that 203 nW depends on the > efficiency of the cell. As to how much such a cell will capture is > irrelevant. > Fact remains that a photovoltaic cell will convert room temperature black > body > radiation to DC, which could charge a capacitor. That is storing ambient > temperature energy to a capacitor, which will indeed drop the net temperature > in > the closed system. Understandably even present leading edge photovoltaic > cells > are highly inefficient at such low radiation levels, but by laws of > probability > such a photovoltaic cell will generate DC electricity. I believe at 99.9% that it wouldn't generate any electricity if everything is at the same temperature, in which case 2LoT wouldn't be broken, that's my point. If you believe otherwise, it's easy enough to experiment. > Therefore, you'll have to ask yourself if the photovoltaic cell breaks the > 2nd > law in accordance to your interpretation of such a law. Here's a quote from > Wikipedia, > > Quote, > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_ratchet > --- > "This is against the principle of the second law of thermodynamics, which can > be > stated as 'It is impossible for any device that operates on a cycle to > receive > heat from a single reservoir and produce a net amount of work."' > --- > > A charged capacitor is a source for usable work and can generate heat. But would the capacitor get charged, that's the question, I don't think it would. Anyway now you've got your billions of tiny diodes in parallel ready made, in the form of a single photovoltaic diode (a large area junction), and so has "Aloha Charlie", so all that's left to do is verify your theories :) Michel
