On 11-10-05 03:55 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:
When the wires have nothing holding them together or apart there is no
opposition. In any case you do not answer my question which I will rephrase: if
the electricity is used to power a motor, and the same electricity is used to
compress or stretch a spring placed between the parallel wires, will the
movement of the spring slow the motor?
Well, of course. Mind the details, and it should be obvious.
With two parallel wires in a horizontal plane, there's a vertical B
field around each wire in the plane. Look at wire A, and its field. When
wire B moves toward or away from wire A it's moving through a vertical B
field, and that's going to exert a force on the charge carriers in B,
either slowing them or speeding them up. Let's use some ASCII art and
work it out. I'll look at the case where the current in the wires is
going in opposite directions (they're the plus and minus wires powering
the motor, rather than two stands of wire in one cable).
If wires A and B go straight into the page, and A is on the left, and
the current in A is going into the page, then we have this:
A . B .
(the wires look like dots, cause they're going straight into the page)
In that case, the B field at wire B (sorry about the double use of "B")
is contained in the surface of the page, and is pointing down the page.
(Use the right hand rule for current in wires to figure this part out:
curl your fingers, point your thumb in the direction the current is
going, and the fingers show you the B field.)
The current in B is flowing out of the page (opposite direction to A),
and the force on B is to the *right*. (Use a different right hand rule:
Hand held flat, thumb pointing out; point thumb in direction the
positive charges are going, fingers in direction the B field points, and
the force sticks out of your palm.)
If B moves to the *right* (under the impulse of the force exerted by A's
B field) then there's a force on its (positive) charge carriers directed
into the page, and the current in wire B slows down. (Use the flat-hand
RHR again.)
QED.
You can work it out for two wires carrying current in the same
direction, as well, and you'll get the same answer: If you let the wires
move under the influence of the B fields which surround them, the
current in them will be slowed by the resulting back EMF.
The presence of the spring is just a red herring -- the interesting
thing is the motion, not what we're using to restrain the wires.
BTW, You may also respond by saying "I don't know" ;)
Harry
Thane has a neat project. He's found that a shorted coil easily accepts a
magnetic field, and immediately collapses. He's found optimum rotation speed
where the shorted coil has a field collapse precisely as the permanent magnet
swings by, pushing it a little bit. The principle was discovered before and
lost to time, but he's brought it back into some limelight.
If he tries to use any current from the shorted coils, they will no longer be
"shorted", and a whole host of problems arise. Not the least of which, they
will no longer be null receptors of the field change, and their discharge time constant
will immediately slow (meaning the drum would have to slow-down to maintain the effect).
This is why the effect is only seen in a narrow band of RPM. The speed of the rotating
wheel must precisely match the discharge time constant of the shorted coils (or some
harmonic thereof).
It's interesting, but he makes himself look foolish with statements like,
"Conventional science does not even consider the extra work performed on anything
placed in between the current bearing wires." That's just absurd, and I think that
Maxwell, Lenz, and a whole host of early researchers would roll over in their graves.
Hope it Helps,
R.L.
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 10:29:56 -0700
From: hlvee...@yahoo.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Free Work
In the comment section to Thane Heins video
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=W_wleUlcMK0
Thane cites some video demonstrations of the biot savart law:
"Here are a couple of great FREE WORK VIDEOS:
Magnetic Force between Parallel Wires
MIT Physics Demo -- Forces on a Current-Carrying Wire
In each video you will see how FREE work is performed by two parallel
conductors. The Law of Conservation of Energy only accounts for energy losses
converted into heat through the resistance of the wires.
Conventional science does not even consider the extra work performed on anything
placed in between the current bearing wires."
I think he means you can get FREE work from this electrical energy, if
inaddition to using the electricity to power a motor, you use the same
electricity to compress or stretch a spring placed between the parallel wires.
Or is the some reason why doing the latter should slow the former?
Harry
From: Robert Leguillon<robert.leguil...@hotmail.com>
To: hlvee...@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 2:44:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Free Work
