Subject was Re: [Vo]:Theory Panel Dissensus
I apologise for not changing the subject header earlier.
Contrary to his earlier statements, Jojo apparently does want to have
the "last word." So this is my last communication in response to him.
I'm adding his email address to a deletion file, so I won't routinely
read his posts. If someone *else* thinks I should respond to
something, or that I'm making a mistake here, please let me know.
At 03:41 PM 8/17/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
LOL... This made my day.
Glad to be of service. Beware, though, of your satisfaction in this
life, at the cost of your ruin in the next. It's not what goes in
(which would include what you hear or read) that can lead to your
loss, but what comes out. You do know that, right?
The self proclaimed LENR/Cold Fusion expert does not even have a
degree in the sciences, let alone in physics, where he proclaims
himself to be an expert.
Well, others claim I'm expert, and I do claim *relative expertise*,
but really, I'm a student. I don't have *any* degree from an
educational institution, in any subject. I dropped out of Cal Tech,
in good standing, after the first term of my third year. That's just what's so.
Why do you consider yourself to be an expert without a degree?
Again, Jojo testifies falsely, on this and many other subjects. He
takes what he reads, interprets it outside of intended meaning -- and
probably outside of actually stated meaning -- and then asserts it as
incorporated fact.
As I've said many times, I'm a "relative expert." That's because I
had the background, from that education and continued interest in the
sciences, over almost fifty years, to understand the cold fusion
material (or most of it), and I read intensively in the field since
early 2009, when I was an active Wikipedia editor, interested in
Wikipedia process and neutrality. So I read all the material,
skeptical and accepting. Anyone who does the reading I've done, with
some reasonable background in the sciences, and who engages in
extensive discussion, as I did, and who can learn from discussion (as
distinct from merely insisting on "being right,") would become a
"relative expert." You want a true expert, go to Dr. Storms, or Dr.
McKubre, or Dr. Mosier-Boss, or Dr. Takahashi.
All of these, besides their expertise from training and experience,
have this in common: personal correspondence with me, useful at least
to me and sometimes to them.
Or go to Jed Rothwell, who is intimately familiar with the history
and the sources, and who is really a writer and translator, and who
has funded cold fusion research, he's put his money where his mouth
is. He's earned his "expert" stripes. With no science degree. Am I
right about that, Jed?
So taking one freshman class under Feynman makes you an expert in
your eyes. Funny how that is true in your eyes. Oh, that's right,
shallow waters are too noisy to hear the truth.
The truth is?
No, I did not just take "one freshman class under Feynman." Jojo
doesn't read sources carefully. It's all explained below. That was
the physics class taught by Feynman that became the classic physics
text. They wanted Feynman to write a text, but he was recalcitrant.
He did not normally teach undergraduates, but agreed to teach this
one time, and it was two years, not "one freshman class," and they
filmed it, including the blackboards. And then wrote the text as,
more or less, a heavily edited transcript.
This was, to be explicit, two years. How many "classes" is that?
Caltech was on a trimester system, so, technically, it was six. At
another school, one a semester system, it might have been equivalent
to four classes. At the very least, it was two years.
And it doesn't matter. I'm a "relative expert" on cold fusion because
I've studied the sources, and have studied them over and over as part
of the process of writing extensive discussion of the topic (what
Jojo calls "verbal diarrhea.") Many times, in this, I've made
interpretive errors, and some of them, at least, have become visible
through re-reading and new writing, and occasionally by correction
from others. Some generous people, when they see an error,
specifically point it out, giving why it is an error. Others just
attack, which is nearly useless.
Any writer, who openly asserts what he or she thinks, is exposed to
correction like this, and can benefit from it, *if* the writer is not
attached to "being right." Attachment to "being right" is poison. It
leads to failure in many areas. Common question from marriage
counselors: "Would you rather be married or be right?"
Letting go of being right is not equivalent to accepting that others
are right. It represents, instead, a willingness to look at things
from other points of view, a willingness to broaden outlook, and to
let go of insisting that one's own point of view is the only
legitimate one, which, stated this way, is obviously ego and inflated
sense of self.
One who has surrendered being right is not abandoning "truth." One is
only abandoning arrogance and attachment to opinion and belief in
personal freedom from error. This is being "as a little child," and
is a condition for progress beyond the world of ego survival. Right, Jojo?
What attachment to self-rightness leads to is denial of truth when it
comes from others, when it seems to contradict what one firmly
believes oneself.
And don't you dare lie to our colleages here that you are "trying to
communicate" with me, or "give me advice". That's a blatant
lie. What does allah say about lying? Oh, that's right, he does
not condemn lying.
On the contrary, the Qur'an goes further than simple condemnation of
lying. The liars are doomed to hell, unless they turn from that path,
but there is something worse, hypocrisy. A liar can recover, by
recognizing the error and repenting of the deceptive intention, if it
was a harmful one, and some "lies" are simply errors, statements that
are not true, but that appeared to be true to the one making the
statement. (Since "actions are [judged] by intention," much may be
forgiven). The hypocrite, however, is in the deepest pit of hell,
because they pretend what is true and secretly accept and live by
what destroys. The hypocrite will say "Lord, Lord," but will be
denied in the end by the one he pretended to respect. Recovering from
hypocrisy is possible, as I interpet the matter, but it is much more difficult.
What Jojo is doing here is stating, as if it were fact, what he does
not know, about Allah (which is just Arabic for "God," it's quite
equivalent, and Arab Christians know this). That's "lying." There is
only one God. (That's quite equivalent to saying that there is only
one Reality.)
You are not interested in communicating with me; your intent is to
take swipes at me and throw insults even after I have unsubsribed
and let you have the last word.
Jojo did not let me have the last word. "The last word" would be that
communication from me would be the end of the matter, and there is
nothing in that which requires that the communication be a "single
word," as Jojo is now conveniently interpreting it. "Word" in this
context means that whatever comes from the one permitted the "last
word" is accepted, and interpreting "word" as singular, whether it be
a single word, literally, or a sentence, or an entire speech or even
a fixed position, would be irrelevant.
There is no evidence we've seen that Jojo even unsubscribed. He send
a message to this list with "unsubscribe" in the subject header,
which had no effect. It's apparent he continued to read the list
(though he could do that on the web), he has effectively admitted
that. The list moderator could confirm unsubscription, but it doesn't
matter. Obvously, if he did unsubscribe, he resubscribed, and he
continued to read in the meantime, especially reading posts from me,
searching for some mention of himself. The man is obviously obsessed.
You took not one, not two swipes at me after I had unsubscribed to
get away from your neurosis. You continued the insults after I was gone.
I think, after responding to Jojo's "terminating" messages -- there
was more than one! -- I mentioned him once. It might have been one
sentence. But I'm not sure. Believe it or not, Jojo is not a major
interest of mine.
When others who had a "conflict" with me took their last word, as I
said I would allow, the conflict ended and that's water under the
bridge. Yet, It seems that a continued conflict is what you want,
therefore, a continued conflict is what you will get.
As I asked before, whatever happened to "turn the other cheek"?
Whatever happened to "cast the beam out of your own eye before trying
to remove the splinter from your brother's eye?" Jojo wants a world,
it seems, where nobody will point out to him that he is sawing
through the branch that is supporting him, that he's driving down a
road that has washed out ahead, heading for a fall off a cliff.
He can have that world, if it's what he wants, and if others will
cooperate. I'm not responding to him again, unless there is a
critical interest. I will not defend myself against charges from him.
He can say what he likes, he can have the last word, if it's what he
wants, as is now quite apparent.
(A "critical interest" would be unlikely, but it's possible. I can't
think of anything that Jojo has written, so far, that would represent
that. I ignore a lot of crap on this list, something being merely off
isn't critical. Jojo's rantings on evolution or his birther insanity
about Obama's birth certificate aren't critical interests, not on
this list, anyway. His attacks on Islam are not critical interests.
However, if *someone else* takes up his insanities, and especially if
someone else asks me to respond to some issue, that's quite
different. I'll respond to someone else, I would also respond to
polite requests from Jojo -- except that I may not see them if they
come from his same email address. I might see the headers, so if he
wants me to respond, he can put "Abd please respond" in the header.
He might himself, by himself, be fixed into some position, but I
won't hold him there.)
I would sooner unsubscribe from this list again but it seems like I
may have to postpone those plans to address many of your
disinformation directed towards me. I have always said I will not
initiate any attacks but I will finish one.
Great. Go ahead. It is your turn to have the "last word."
I am sick of bullies like you, and frankly, I don't have to put up
with it, so I am responding. And remember, an insult from you
directed at me is what prompted my re-subscribing to this
forum. And I will stay in this list until such time as you stop
your lies and insults. Bill is free to ban me but I will come back
everytime to answer each and every one of your insults.
So, forget about any communication, it's too late for that.
It is as you say, and will remain as you say, as long as you say it.
This is the world you are creating, and you are responsible for what
you create, not for what others have created, except as you choose to
take responsibility.
Jojo copied my original message below. I've added nothing new to it.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" <a...@lomaxdesign.com>
To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com>; <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Theory Panel Dissensus
Q.E.D.
At 01:54 AM 8/17/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
So, you admit to having NOT read CE web site and a more thorough
explanation of his theory.
Yes. Generally, I admit the truth, regardless of how it might look.
Basically, I trust the truth more than I trust myself.
So, you do not really understand what his theory is;
That does not follow. He's explained his theory on this list and
elsewhere. I have a general understanding of it. It's not clear to
me that even he has a *specific* understanding of it. He has
indicated as much. It's an *idea*. He's now been gathering support
for the idea, finding this or that. He'll learn something and maybe
some others will.
YET, you mouth off as if you're the expert.
No, I say what I see and understand, and sometimes what I don't
understand. "As if you're the expert" is a projection, made up by
Jojo. I am, relative to some, *an* expert on cold fusion. What CE
is proposing might or might not be "cold fusion," and CE's theory
seems to have been proposed in a bit of a vacuum, as far as
experimental evidence is concerned. Others have pointed out
problems, on a private list where subscribers are far more
knowledgeable than the norm here.
Your verbal diarrhea is full of irrelevancy and useless
comments that make you feel you know it know. Shallow waters are indeed noisy.
Don't dive into shallow waters, then, Jojo. You might damage your
brain, not that this is much of a real risk for you.
You know, you may learn a little insight and wisdom if you heed
the following ancient (and modern) wisdom.
Great stuff. Cast the beam out of your own eye, first, Jojo. You
gain nothing by ranting as you do, except regret, later.
"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and
shame unto him." - Solomon
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."
-Albert Einstein
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information,
which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep
a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior
to investigation". - Herbert Spencer
Jojo, here, imagines that I'm in contempt of CE. On the contrary, I
consider him a friend, and wrote to -- and about -- him as such.
Jojo doesn't understand this, yet he is *full* of contempt, it
drips from his posts here.
The term for this is "hypocrite." It's the greatest danger we face,
it's how we can harm ourselves where nobody else could harm us.
You claim to be a man of science and yet you act like the
quintessential bigot. The audacity you carry and use to condemn a
new idea is mind-boggling.
Remember, CE isn't complaining, Jojo is. CE wants reaction to his
idea, advice, consideration, and he's gotten it.
Are we supposed to be impressed that you "studied Physics under Feynman"?
Well, that's up to you. I was on a train with a young man, and
started talking with him and when he found out that I'd been with
Feynman, he practically started levitating, he was so excited.
Technically, I did study physics with Feynman, though only as part
of a class consisting of every freshman at Cal Tech, Fall, 1961,
plus the next year when we were sophomores. Feynman also visited
Page House, where I lived those two years, and I heard his famous
stories from him. It might be more accurate that I studied
*Feynman*, and his approach to life, rather than "physics."
Yes, I am impressed with Feynman, but am I supposed to be
impressed by you? Tell us, do you even have a Physics degree;
undergraduate or otherwise?
No. None. Not in any field. I thought I'd made that clear. I never
went back to college after leaving Cal Tech the first term of my
third year there. You could say that I was bored, that's as valid
as any other explanation.
What you see is what you get. Look, when I've studied a field, I
can talk with experts, ask them meaningful questions, and, once in
a while, bring up something they haven't thought of. That's why
*experts* generally accept me. And that's why *non-experts*
sometimes don't. This has to do with many fields, not just cold fusion.
That's why I can ask questions of the best-known scientists in the
field and they answer them. They may not always agree with me, but
they trust me. It was gratifying, after leaving formal science
almost fifty years ago, to have my name appear in
Naturwissenschaften, as a credit in the Storms review (2010), just
before the references. It's been gratifying to be invited to
conferences, and, just out, I'm likely to be at ICCF 18.
Presentation to be determined, I have some ideas, or I might just
be there as a reporter.
People like Jojo have always had a hard time with me. I need to
look at that. My goal, generally, is to communicate, and I'm
obviously failing to communicate with Jojo. Maybe that's because
I'm not always writing for him, I'm sometimes writing for everyone
else here. Of course he's not going to like that.
However, I have written certain things as advice for him, which, if
he'd consider it, could transform his life forever. It's up to him, though.
