I'm not a big fan of abstract calls for strong leadership, and I genuinely don't see Arbcom as being a disaster - though there could be things it has done that I'm not aware of. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to changes that would make the pedia a "healthy, collaborative and fair creative community", just not convinced that reforming or replacing Arbcom is the place to start.
Without knowing which aspects of the pedia Marc and Phil diagnose as unfair or unhealthy it is difficult to know if your diagnosis is the same or the reverse of mine. Though our preferred solutions are certainly dissimilar. I'm not convinced that "lack of a formal, structured full-oversight body this is the fatal flaw in the entire Wikipedia Project". Remember the wiki is at its strongest as a self organising community where people don't have to file requests in triplicate with some commissar. I like the flexibility of being able to launch things like the death anomaly project without having to seek approval from some central authority. To me "a formal, structured full-oversight body" isn't a way to achieve a "healthy, collaborative and fair creative community", if anything its the reverse. That said we are a community in a longterm decline, which isn't in itself healthy; But we are a large and committed community that is still getting a lot done, so one shouldn't exaggerate the unhealthiness. We are still in large parts an astonishingly collaborative community, despite the unfortunate shift from fixing things to tagging them for others to fix. As for the fairness, I'd be interest in knowing which specific aspects you consider unfair. If there are any current or potential Arbs who you consider unfair then the time to say so is during the election for Arbcom. A well constructed case demonstrating that a candidate had a tendency to unfairness would probably tank any candidate for Arbcom. WereSpielchequers On 28 October 2011 18:52, Marc Riddell <michaeldavi...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Marc Riddell > > <michaeldavi...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > >> I agree with you completely, Phil. ArbCom, as it presently is, is a > >> disaster. And is a major obstacle to achieving a healthy, collaborative > and > >> fair creative community. My questions are: Who has the power to change > that? > >> How would the process that could evaluate ArbCom, and bring about > change, > >> get started? I would be interested in helping. > > on 10/28/11 12:40 PM, Carcharoth at carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: > > > > ArbCom has far less influence than people give it credit for. What you > > are looking for is leadership, and that has to come from the community > > (or a body elected for that purpose by the community), not a dispute > > resolution body (which is what ArbCom is, or at least what it started > > out as). What is needed is a body other than ArbCom to provide > > leadership. That is what Wikipedia is lacking. There have been > > attempts (by both ArbCom and the community) to institute such a body, > > but the "community" tends to resist radical change, which is of course > > part of the problem (though it is also a safety feature against too > > radical changes). > > > > The upcoming ArbCom elections might be a good time to air some of > > these matters, but only if done in a well-thought out manner, by > > someone with the time and motivation to see through a process that may > > take months or years to come to a conclusion. > > > > Carcharoth > > I agree with you completely, Carcharoth, that "What is needed is a body > other than ArbCom to provide leadership". It is this lack of a formal, > structured full-oversight body this is the fatal flaw in the entire > Wikipedia Project. But to try and establish this body via ArbCom doesn't > register with me. I believe such a new concept such as this will require a > formal resolution, or whatever mechanism such additions or alterations to > the structure of the Project require. > > Marc > > > _______________________________________________ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
