>"Borrowed ? say What ? Kind of comment can just come from a perfect
imbecile
who is a waste of human flesh, and his only use on this earth is to take up
space, God knows why, thank you very much for your brilliant comments,"
Whoa, Sylvia, chill the f*ck out for a second. I questioned David too but
he did have some stuff to back up what he was saying (Dave I hope you don't
mind me posting this and I apologize for including sections of a private
post but I think in this case it's necessary):
>>1. Adaption of western instruments, use of these instruments in
non-traditional ways.
Although it's not cut and dry - there are some instruments that African's
picked up after being taken to the Americas (largely brass marching band
instruments and piano).
>>2. Obvious examples, the black church's use of white gospel music; Duke
Ellington influenced by Ravel and Debussy; Art Tatum's reworking of the
Western classical virtuosic pianistic tradition; Charlie Parker playing
along with Stravinsky records; the uses jazz musicians have made of a
classical text called Slominsky's Thesaurus of Scales...
This is true. *Some* African-American jazz artists were and are influenced
by European classical forms.
>>3. All jazz harmony is a mutant, revised version of Western classical
harmony.
Well, this isn't actually true - "blue" notes/harmonies are African in
origin and never existed in Western scales
>>/dave
I don't think he is saying that African-American's have borrowed
*everything* from European traditions. I think what he is trying to say is
that there was a bit of back and forth between both cultures. However, you
are right, Anglo culture has taken much more without giving credit (and
also watering it down to the point of *blah*) and also trying to keep black
artists underfunded, underrepresented, and corralled into a stereotype (ie.
gangsta rap).
Here's some other info that does defend what Dave was saying:
Many Jazz writers have pointed out that the non-Jazz elements from which
Jazz was formed, the Blues, Ragtime, Brass Band Music, Hymns and
Spirituals, Minstrel music and work songs were ubiquitous in the United
States and known in dozens of cities. Why then, they reason, should New
Orleans be singled out as the sole birthplace of Jazz? These writers are
overlooking one important factor that existed only in New Orleans,
namely, the black Creole subculture.
The Creoles were free, French and Spanish speaking Blacks, originally
from the West Indies, who lived first under Spanish then French rule in
the Louisiana Territory. They became Americans as a result of the
Louisiana Purchase of 1803 and Louisiana statehood in 1812. The Creoles
rose to the highest levels of New Orleans society during the 19th
century. They lived in the French section of the city east of Canal
Street and became prominent in the economic and cultural life of the
section.
The Creole musicians, many of whom were Conservatory trained in Paris,
played at the Opera House and in chamber ensembles. Some led the best
society bands in New Orleans. They prided themselves on their formal
knowledge of European music, precise technique and soft delicate tone
and had all of the social and cultural values that characterize the
upper class. In sharp contrast were the people of the American part of
New Orleans, who lived west of Canal Street. They were newly freed
blacks who were poor, uneducated, and totally lacking in cultural and
economic advantages. The musicians of the American section, also called
the Back o' town section, were schooled in the blues, Gospel music, and
work songs that they sang or played mostly by ear. Memorization and
improvisation characterized the west side bands; sight reading and
correct performance were characteristic of Creole bands.
Then in 1894 an odious racial segregation law was enacted in New Orleans
which forced the refined Creoles to live on the other side of Canal
Street. Though this was a cultural catastrophe for the Creoles, they
soon gained musical leadership of the American section . It was the
musical sparks that flew on the clashing of these very different
cultures in the ensuing decade that ignited the flames of Jazz. These
happenings are discussed in the numerous recordings of Jelly Roll Morton
made in 1938 at the Library of Congress in which he is interviewed by
folk music expert Alan Lomax. They are the best documents we have of the
process that transformed the many non-Jazz musical elements into Jazz.
Jelly Roll, a Creole named Ferdinand LaMenthe at birth, was one of the
big movers in the early development of Jazz. He explains in great detail
how a Jazz piece like Tiger Rag evolved out of European dance forms like
the French quadrille, the waltz, the mazurka and the polka. He also
cites the importance of Spanish rhythms in early Jazz, an effect he
calls the "Spanish Tinge".
Jelly Roll Morton claimed to be the inventor of Jazz in 1902, an absurd
claim to be sure. What is even more absurd is that there is ample
evidence to support his claim ! There is no doubt that Morton had
isolated a music not covered by the blues or ragtime and that he applied
a swinging syncopation to a variety of music, including ragtime, opera,
and French and Spanish songs and dances. He also may have introduced the
2-bar break (the precursor to extended solos), scat singing and other
improvisational ideas. Basically, the conversion of ragtime to Jazz was
quite simple, involving application of a strong underlying 4/4 beat to
2/4 ragtime. But all great ideas are simple once understood. With this
device, any music from opera to the blues could be "played hot" as it
was described in those days.
The popularly accepted theory that Jazz stemmed from a simple
combination of African rhythms and European harmony is in need of a
little revision. Both African and European rhythms were employed.
African music supplied the strong underlying beat (absent in most
European music), the use of polyrhythms, and the idea of playing the
melody separate from or above the beat. European music provided formal
dance rhythms. Combined, these rhythms give Jazz its' characteristic
swing. Likewise, the harmonies and musical ideas of both continents are
present, the blue notes derived from the pentatonic scale, "call and
response" and unconventional instrumental timbres of African music
together with "conventional" harmonies and, most important, the formal
structure of European music. The multiplicity of ethnic, cultural and
musical conditions needed to spawn Jazz was thus unique to the United
States, and specifically to New Orleans. The necessary philosophical
impetus for Jazz, i.e. , democracy and freedom of individual expression
supported by group interaction, are also American institutions.
http://www.redhotjazz.com/originsarticle.html
Here's another article that touches on the mix of European and
African-American
http://www.nps.gov/neor/Jazz%20History_origins_pre1895.htm
So, please cool it with the personal insults - it's really
counter-productive and stupid.
take care
MEK
