I think maybe what David was trying to say is there is a series of exchanges, a dialetic? I am sure no one here would dispute that African-Americans have been the driving force behind today's pop cultures. I think you guys are in agreement. There's just been a misunderstanding because of the medium of the Internet.
> Its discussions like this that really makes me hate techno and everyone that > goes with it. > > |-----Original Message----- > |From: Sylvia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > |Sent: 18 June 2003 23:52 > |To: David Powers > |Cc: [email protected] > |Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going > |on about) > | > | > |>because African-Americans have always borrowed from > |>the white European tradition, > | > |Borrowed ? say What ? Kind of comment can just come from a > |perfect imbecile who is a waste of human flesh, and his only > |use on this earth is to take up space, God knows why, thank > |you very much for your brilliant comments, I much appreciated > |meantime let me tell you that: > | > |The music was a product of the existing environment of the > |time in which the musicians who created it lived.. social and > |political striking periods of black people in America, have > |always been accompanied with a new musical genre, as an > |example Period of Soul is roughly defined as 1955 - 1970. It > |very much parallels the Civil Rights movement. > | > |- African roots music 1619! brought to us Negro spirituals 1825-1850 > |- Negro spiritual "antique Gospel" Music brought to us Gospel > |music: 1890 then Rhythm and Blues as BLUES: early 1900s and > |then Jazz: 1920 > |- Gospel and R&B brought to us Soul > |- Jazz brought to us Funk > | > |I wonder how you can be daily, next, go alongside to people of > |which you do not even know the life, the existence, the > |history ...the roots! > | > |Take some teach on my web at > |http://www.guerrillafunk.com/thoughts/doc1788.html > | > |And let me quote myself from an email that I sent to this same > |list on March 6th 2002! > | > |"Yeah, it is...but a lot of things used to be "black people" > |music too. Although jazz was pioneered by black artists...who > |is the most well known "jazz" musician today? Kenny G? (What > |happened to Coltrane and Miles Davis?) Although blues music > |was pioneered by black artists...who is the most well known > |blues musician today? Stevie Ray Vaughn? (What happened to > |Muddy Waters, Albert King and Robert Johnson? Even Robert > |Cray?) > |And although rock was pioneered by black artists...who is the > |most well loved and respected rock group in the world? The > |Beatles? (What happened to Little Richard , Chuck Berry, and > |Bo Diddley?) Apathy. People didn't care, they didn't pay > |attention to what was going on, they didn't take a > |stand...they supported what was "safe", "common", > |"predictable", "expected"...just like Living Colour's record > |company did with the cover of their first album...they didn't > |and dont' challenge the "presumed wisdom" of the day...and so > |much of this music (Black Music?) has died. They largely did > |this because, they were comfortable and complacent in the > |cultural resonance they were receiving from MI at the time - > |and the fact that the music industry was successful in keeping > |them pacified in this way. Same game today? They were content > |with their "Bread and Circuses"... It's hard to say. .." > | > | > ||-----Original Message----- > ||From: David Powers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ||Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 5:31 PM > ||To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Powers > ||Cc: [email protected] > ||Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on > ||about) > || > || > ||Great post. I may have been misinformed, I was thinking > |about it more > ||in terms of the classifying of music by the record labels than the > ||meaning of the music for the people who made it. Now I'm trying to > ||remember which label it was that the record industry used, > |maybe it was > ||R&B? > || > ||And actually, I have to admit that the concept of "soul" you are > ||speaking about does not require any kind of metaphysics and > |could be a > ||very useful Idea. I come from a very conservative white Christian > ||background where "soul" is used as an extremely repressive idea and > ||justifies oppresion rather than encouraging people to seek > |for a better > ||life here on earth. So what is really interesting is that > ||African-Americans took a notion from their oppresors and transformed > ||it, took it down a life of flight so that it became a liberating > ||concept. > || > ||And if you think about it in terms of music, this is really > |interesting > ||because African-Americans have always borrowed from the white > |European > ||tradition, but at the same time have often been successful at > ||liberating these elements from their hierarchical origins and > |set them > ||in motion, into a continuous variation where the elements that are > ||ripped from their foundation in an oppresive hierarchical Culture now > ||enter into free play and communicate with all the other elements of > ||music. A continuous line of variation rather than a strict code of > ||meaning. (On the other hand there is always a Winton Marsalis at the > ||end of the line trying to block the development, saying "our > |music is a > ||CLASSICAL music", hip hop, techno and free jazz, well THAT doesn't > ||swing, that's not real music, that's not our identity, we > |need to find > ||our place as an extension of Western Culture.) > || > ||313 people, you might think I'm off topic but really I'm > |talking about > ||things like jazz chords, instrumental virtuosity, 808, 909, 303, DIY > ||use of technology, sampler; all the elements of Detroit techno can be > ||understood very well in this context. > || > ||dave > || > || > ||---------- Original Message ------------- > ||Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on > ||about) > ||Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:41:17 +0200 > ||From: "Sylvia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ||To: "David Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > || > || > || > |||>On the other hand, "Soul Music" as a genre was a just a > |euphimism for > |||"black music", and doesn't have anything >to do with "soul" as a > |||spiritual or metaphysical concept. > || > ||Euphemism ???? > || > ||'blues' is without hope and that its singers accept their conditions > ||without complaint or expectation of anything better. Soul borrowed an > ||expectation of > ||a better world from gospel, but translate it into a worldly context as > ||opposed to a religious one. Gospel gives soul its optimism because it > ||believes in a better world in heaven, soul starts looking for > |that better > ||world on earth. > || > ||Soul Music is the product of ever evolving social conditions and a > ||diversity of musical influences > ||Soul Music is about the problems faced by groups of people, not of > ||individuals > ||Soul Music is about poverty and day to day drudgery > ||Soul Music is the belief that circumstances can improve > ||Soul Music is about realism, it is not blinkered by romantic ideals > ||The 'Moan' is a defining characteristic of Soul Music > ||Soul Music is tolerant > ||Soul Music is..... > || > ||Euphemism, psssst, dubya! but yes understanding Soul Music can just > ||escape from a brain with 2 neurons without connector. > || > || > || > |||-----Original Message----- > |||From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > |||[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > |||Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:58 AM > |||To: David Powers > |||Cc: [email protected]; spw > |||Subject: RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on > |||about) > ||| > ||| > ||| > |||>On the other hand, "Soul Music" as a genre was a just a > |euphimism for > |||"black music", and doesn't have anything >to do with "soul" as a > |||spiritual or metaphysical concept. > ||| > |||The hell it doesn't have a spiritual concept! Where the hell do you > |||think Soul music came from? > ||| > |||Listen to Ray Charles man, and then tell me that there isn't a > |||spiritual side to Soul music - one of the biggest influences on Soul > |||music was the church. All those singers - All Green, Mavis Staple, > |||Aretha Franklin, and so many more got their start in the church. > |||That's not to say that Soul = Gospel but there in a huge > |influence of > |||Gospel on Soul. Soul music is the merging of the spiritual with the > |||physical - that's why it's so great to dance to... it satisfies the > |||body, mind and "soul". (That's why I love the term "High > |Tech Soul" = > |||Techno or "Techno Soul") > ||| > |||MEK > ||| > ||| > ||| > || > || > || > || > |
