lets also point out that for all the misogynism in hip hop, while to some degree it might be "looked over" from a female perspective of those who like that music... there is also an arguably reciprical aspect going on in hip hop and r&b.
i.e. to some degree there's a two way street, mutually exploitive aspect, like as far as lyrics by women to women a long the lines of "girlfriend get that cash" or "get them keys". I dunno - I guess a good example would be Trina's "No Panties". of course, many might point out that this sort of thing is "self-exploitive" but then, in a big picture sense I think misogyny is too. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Cyclone Louise Wehner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:29:08 +1100 >I think it was dream hampton who wrote about how women - especially women of >colour - listen and appreciate gangsta rap styles and somehow listen >'beyond' what could be construed as misogynism. >Let's be frank: the truth is that sexism is not deemed as offensive >cuturally as racism, accuse a racist of racism and he will get defensive, >accuse a male of sexism and it's laughed off. I always wondered about that. >You'd think *anything* that holds back a human should be abhored. I am >philosophical about it. It is what it is. We women deal with it. >I didn't even pick up on the 'sexism' in OutKast myself. I think there is a >story line there. >What concerns me more is how women do not support each other. >I guess it's ironic Andrew - a male - picked this up. ;) > > >> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:15:43 -0000, FC2 Richards wrote: >> >>> >>> Sorry to bust you open on this thread, but last time I >>> listened to the words >>> of hey ya it was all about waiting for the right >> girl. >>> My wife happens to >>> think that is the sweetest song on the album just >>> because of what it is >>> about. She can look past the whole bitch thing, and I >>> think most people >>> can. If you don't like it, you don't have to listen >> to >>> it. Just choose >>> what ever is the lesser of 2 evils. I chose to >>> continue to listen to >>> Outkast. >> >> ***don't get me wrong, i'm still listening to outkast; >> coincidentally, my fiance's favorite song on the double >> album is hey ya, and in my last live set i did sort of >> a live remix of hey ya/i like the way you move admist >> some of my own electro. i'm not hatin' on outkast. i >> wasn't singling out any lyrics in hey ya, i was just >> talking about outkast's lyrics in general--outkast came >> up on the list and the lyric thing has always been >> something i've been aware of when listening to them so >> i mentioned it (i still remember a negative bit that >> was said about lesbians in a song they did in the past >> that featured erykah badu; people would say to me "hey, >> i'm digging that new outkast song with erkyah badu" and >> i'd be saying "yes, the music is great, but i wish they >> didn't have that line in there about lesbians". i >> can't even remember the song, but negative things like >> that stick with me. i could say nothing, but i say >> something because it bothers me. i don't see a need >> for heterosexual men to talk about lesbians at all, let >> alone negatively. i know my lesbian friends don't >> appreciate lyrics like that). anyway, what jumps out >> at me on first thought is the song on the new album >> whose last 2 minutes riffs on "bitch...crazy bitch." >> as you said, i can just not listen to it. i listen to >> it, just cringe a bit when that bit comes on and let it >> keep playing. (my fiance, however, skips that song >> when she plays the album on her own; she says, "damn, i >> can understand he's mad, but why does he have to say >> 'bitch' so much in this song? the point was made 20 >> 'bitches' ago!" i agree with her) different strokes >> for different folks, i suppose; i realize we all have >> different reactions to what is said in lyrics. as i >> said below, i like outkast, i just wish they were more >> positive lyrically about women and sexuality, that's >> all. (not meaning to drag this thread on and on, just >> wanted to clarify what i had said--pardon the >> pun--below) :) that's all from me on outkast's lyrics, >> i promise :) >> take care. andrew duke >> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 6:22 AM >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Cc: [email protected] >>> Subject: (313) Re: hey ya? >>> >>> I'm under the impression that it came out promo-only >> as >>> a double A side with "I Like The Way You Move", both >> as >>> album cuts, ie no remixes or anything. I'm a huge fan >>> of Outkast's music but I wish they would talk about >>> women and sex in a more positive way. I just can't >>> stand hearing men use the word "bitch" and continue to >>> be apalled by how many men in hip hop and r n b >>> continue to talk about lesbians in a negative way ie >>> either "i'm so much of a man lesbians want me too" >>> and/or "she doesn't want me so she must be a >> lesbian". >>> i still think much can be learned from prince, who >>> talked about women and sex very very often, but always >>> positively. Prince seemed to celebrate sexuality for >>> the sake of it, whereas for Outkast and many hip hop >>> and r n b acts, sexuality is talked about as a "power" >>> issue of "men having power over women", which I find >>> distasteful. Speaking of NERD, Pharrell seems to talk >>> about women and sex positively. my CDN .02. Andrew >> Duke >> >> out now: Environmental Politics http://and-oar.org >> Take Nothing For Granted http://acidfake.tk >> Sprung http://bip-hop.com >> http://warprecords.com/mart/music/release.php? >> cat=BLEEP12&fc_type=CD >> *Canadian electronica album of the year nominee* >> More Destructive Than Organized http://staalplaat.com >> Highest Common Denominator http://pieheadrecords.com >> Physical and Mental Health http://dialrecords.com >> 74'02 (split with Hypo) http://tsunami-addiction.com >> Waveforms: Halifax Electronic Music Compilation >> http://cognitionaudioworks.com > ____________________________________________________________ Free 20 MB Bannerless Domain Hosting, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and more. Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/
