On Sep 16, 2004, at 1:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i've certainly never tried to hide my identity on this or any list. but
whatever.
Josh, as a writer for Urb covering so many detroit things you've also
certainley never tried to SHOW your identity either. I was starting to
perceive it as you were having it both ways, you were a known voice /
reviewer for positivity and techno in Urb, but an anonymous sniper
perched over 313 to be a nameless playerhater when you had some ill
dirt on someone as soon as they were getting props from others. I just
called it like i saw it. Maybe I'm crazy... if this is all my
imagination i'm actually relieved that it's just some bizarre oversight
in your communication technique all this time. Personally i'm a fan of
direct accountability.
i no wait- no one on this list reads anything except dan sicko and
technotourist (no offence to either).
nahh, if you think there's something great in urb, or WIRE, or XLR8R,
or WaxPoetics, or KeepOn, or FutureMusic, or wherever else, tell the
list! the articles you wrote about sound interesting.. feel free to
plug them, post them online (if you have can, i know that's often not
possible), they sound on topic to me. i let my subscription expire
years ago when i felt Urb was going downhill... but you're totally
right i haven't checked in lately. I always read the Scott Sterling
bits back before it got more wide and R&B stars were on the cover. I'm
not anti Urb, i'm anti blanket tabloid-y Jerry Springer Show dissing of
anyone you feel like hating on. I am anti- any music journalist who
just thinks they have to be a bitter trash talker in order to be
thought of as 'in the know', or worse, someone who has to trash talk in
order to make us ignorant zombies look past the haze of blind fan-dom.
Most of us here can.
It just seemed to me like you're so dead set on debunking anyone
genuine love for the music that you want to come after these artists
for reasons that frankly I don't think that many people give a care
about... I don't think 313 is a place for exposing all the warts you
know and want everyone else to know, if it's irrelevant to the records
and the music.. it seems like you feel it's your duty to keep trotting
that stuff out as soon as someone is getting praised for something.
it's like you think you're doing 313 some great service as a
hard-hitting investigative reporter that will bring The Light down to
us ignorant sycophant simpletons. I just wanted to tell you it's
annoying to see it played out over and over. New day, different thread,
but the same haytin.
I think it's lame you just have also cast us all in a single
brushstroke as not up for debate, not willing to criticize, that's a
pretty oversimplified view... some of just have an internal "ill hater"
regulation meter, where yours is apparently in need of a tune up.
i'm sure you somehow think that your little college radio show somehow
makes more of an impact than a national magazine that gives a
consistant
spotlight to underground music.
all i can do is laugh, that's a good one! come one, we've met, it's
funny you think i'd think that... I don't think i'm making an impact
on sh!t except on how much of my paycheck I spend on bandwidth transfer
each month.. ha. Frankly i have no delusions of "making a differece"
beyond a fairly niche group of listeners in town and online, and while
i'd love national impact, it's not my lifelong goal and I have no
delusions of grandeur about what i'm doing. I'm a nobody! I like
DJing and digging and the fact that i have an opportunity to share
classic music I find interesting every week is something i do for free,
and something i'm grateful I have a forum for, however miniscule it is.
The site is basically just a ghetto blog for audio files. By
contrast, Urb will always reach 10 million more people, if only
because it's advertiser supported so it has funding so it has legs,
reach, marketing, momentum. That's what it's for. That's why Urb
exists. I'm not saying Urb doesn't have a right to exist, it fills a
niche for what it is, and it's great people can have writing for Urb as
a fulltime job, cause you're into music like we all are, but you're
getting paid to write for it and that's awesome, actually, if you like
what Urb is all about. Playing/unearthing/mixing records is, however,
more fun to me than writing about them, but to each his own and I am
glad there are both writers and DJs. And people who do both. But just
so you know my show is making NO more than a tiny tiny difference, but
one i'm into making, and that's a personal decision I'm comfortable
with. I'm not chasing fame as a DJ (obviously! i missed that boat 10
years ago) and I think it's funny as hell anyone would think I am,
especially in this country. I also know I could lose the radio slot at
any time, so i try to make the most of it while I still can...
Also - I'm also not saying anyone must stay non-commercial to be legit,
that's not my argument either, just for the record. I'm just not an
Urb fan lately. Artists, DJs and music journalists all need to pay
rent. There are good writers even at more mainstream rags, and good
ones at less mainstream rags too, whatever... I'm just not into Urb.
i only start this pissing contest since you seem to be saying that
i've somehow comprimised myself. to that i say, get f**ked.
and i intend to, tonight!! Err, no, wait... no i'm just saying if
you can support yourself as a music writer, that's great, more power to
you. I just hate it when writers feel like to get chops in the field
they have to be giant-killers. do you know what I mean? i'm sure
you've observed this firsthand in the cutthroat world of music
journalists, it's not that big. But it IS political. That's what i'm
observing, not that you're a sellout. It's the very same reason I
can't stand how every week Simon Reynolds has THE NEXT GREAT MUSIC
TREND/ANNOUNCEMENT that in 90 days sounds as ridiculous as his last
grand diss or pronouncement. it's like over-dissing or over-praising
so over-exaggerated as if to make more of an edge for themselves as a
writer than they could get if they were just not so ill about it all.
it's becomes over-exaggerated, like an ill caricature of something.
it's a warped perception, though it cloaks itself in accuracy and
education of the ignorant masses. in fact, it's just crap when you
boil it down, and i thought it needed to be said.
now, as for this whole debate, i don't even know why i bother.
me neither, maybe you need to exit your failed crusade, knowing you'll
never be able to heal all us ignorant sinners with blinders on... so
you can ascend to Mount Techno all alone, but so enlightened. We so
want to only believe the mythology? Oh come on give me a break.
seeing as this list has declined into nothing but synchophants who
have less
interest in furthering 313 generated music than they do in circling the
wagons around it
nicely put, but i think your generalization is just that.. you probably
couldn't find a more hyped up group of fans who want to spread &
discuss it, warts and all, or we wouldn't be up missing sleep typing
about it... and not all just "derrick, kevin, juan" fan stuff.. think
of all the other NEW producers and DJs who are on this list and started
got into "detroit" techno/house way after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th wave.
Somehow it's still enduring as a spirit, even as 'genre' divider in a
music store, long all the business activity on Gratiot stopped. This
list may not be the best place to learn about detroit club gossip or
parties/events anymore, (there are other, better places for that) but
313 is still the spiritual place where it lives on and grows way beyond
the typical rotating door of the party-of-the-week scene. Which I'm
grateful for, by the way, as an energy engine, but trends/clubs/parties
come and go but in dance music somehow "Detroit" as a sound has
remained and gotten even stronger. The festival, etc. etc.. it's also
what keeps the ink flowing in magazine articles too.
matt, since you're too special to read a magazine that puts your heros
on
the cover, ill tell you what derrick may had to say being inextricably
bound to the others...
i wouldn't say i'm too special, i'd say i just didn't even know about
it! i don't check the newstands unless i'm tipped or it's random
happenstance, i am not detroit omniscient. PS.- that is what 313 is
for, tips on good detroit music and writing and things. PPS. - can i
get a comp subscription ;) PPPS. - or some castoff promo vinyl for
that matter
finally. my attacks on juan were not personal. everything i said is a
matter of public knowledge (THE GUY SKIPPED THE OPENING PITCH OF A
TIGERS
GAME!!! WHAT AN A**HOLE!!!)
It sounds really rude, sure i agree! But do you know what happened?
The whole story, all the reasons? please, DON'T post it, but i'm just
asking if you know *ALL* the facts. Did you talk to Juan about it?
Because personally i'm just not someone who was raised to talk trash
about someone if I wasn't there myself, and knew what really happened
from all sides. Do you? If you do, great, but even if you do, why
would you go out of your way to bring a man down on a list devoted to
celebrating the music he started? that's what i don't understand. Do
you go on Miles Davis email lists, and when a thread starts praising
'Bitches Brew', you just reiterate to everyone how he was a chronic
heroin and cocaine addict and a jerk in the studio, and.. and....
"It's public knowledge..." yeah ok whatever
My prediction for the presentation of the awards.
[snip]
I actually enjoyed this part, well written... but i don't care if kevin
was kissing babies at a hospital prior to the awards, and Juan was in
the gutter face down with pantyhose on... that doesn't affect his
contribution to the field you depend on everday to make a living by
writing about... the man was techno personified. Is he still? Maybe,
probably not. Is he still worthy of recognition for his lifetime of
contributions? WITHOUT A DOUBT. Come on if they can get Prince into
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame after all those bad albums and weird
personal dramas, surely Juan can qualify for a local award. I can see
you in the back room of the Prince award ceremony, shouting to everyone
gathered to recognize him for the award: BUT WHAT ABOUT STUPID NAME
CHANGED TO A SYMBOL THING!?! DID YOU FORGET ALL HIS OTHER WACK
MOVIES? AND COME ON HE'S A JEHOVA'S WITNESS... YOU CAN'T TAKE HIM
SERIOUSLY NOW. HE WON'T GIVE INTERVIEWS! YOU ALL ARE JUST BLIND
FANBOY SHEEP! PLUS, HE'S *TOO SHORT* !!!
- i didn't diss claude young. i pointed out that it was odd that after
endless threads about claude retiring, that he would show up on a new
bookings roster. so i brought it up.
here's what i want to know though: why? we all knew it. yeah, it was
a little surprising. but i figured he had his reasons for it that you
or I don't know about, and I wasn't about to look down my nose at him
for it. Should I? Josh, you've had to met Claude at some point, what
you see is what you get, he's a great guy!!! if he started up again
he's got more valid reasons that you or i do. why don't you start a
petition to see if he'll stay retired from DJing just so he can keep
his word and not raise any eyebrows. (tip: you'll be the only one
signing it).
when someone farts in church, are you like: "hey old lady! have some
beans this morning!? Hey everyone, she just farted! I just want
everyone to know, and oooh it stanks!"
You don't think most people here read all Claude's beefs with how ill
the press can be towards him, and when trash gets talked, online, all
the time? you can rest assured you wanting to "set the record
straight" on whether he is or isn't retired isn't going to help him.
To me it's just like bad gossip and I try to stay a level above it,
where you seem to thrive on the ill mud-slingin part. I guess I just
think more tact is better than less, and from your posts you appear
opposite. I'm just calling you on it, flame away.
Yet this list has become such a slobbering fan fest.
Except for you, Josh, because only you can see the REAL truth? The
vast majority of subscribers here DO have the ability to be critical of
detroit artists. Not all gig and record reviews here are glowing, come
on.
--
Matt MacQueen
http://SonicSunset.com
