I think you are right'
Living from your creativity is a challenge, no matter where you are.
Perhaps P2P ideas are the great capitalist killer. Perhaps it is a
good device for building global communities that exist in the minority.
I am keen to see the ongoing effects of P2P on the dj scene & market.
Built into vinyl distribution, was the protection rackets that ensured
the most popular dj's got the best tunes first. Also the whole process
of limited release numbers weather due to finance from the artist or some
direct intent, gave certain records a gem like quality.
Due to P2P, I know of some instances where young djs have picked up a
new tune before the 'star' club dj has the release on vinyl.
So obviously today there is no preferred medium in clubs anymore, and
track exclusivity has become a void commodity.
Also we have removed the supply chain, we have removed the hierarchy, and
loads of rare records are splintering into the digital ether.
Meaning on one hand more people are gaining greater access to the music.
And on the other hand we are destroying the structures that enabled artist
to make some return from releasing music. The same structures that also
held filters against the onslaught of mediocrity.
/ So in a commercialized society, where individuals do not exist
with out the moral support of the majority.
Certainly this would be the time to reinturperate the moral support
of the majority.
ack ' I could talk myself in circles all day.
However P2P and the net has shifted the playing field, and I just feel
that there should be a lot more discussion about new game plans and
theories of action.
I am surprised greatly that P2P is even being discussed on this list,
when six months ago there was some fist fighting over it.
Obviously everyone is using it . eh ?? Come on get out of the closet.
.simon
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Believe me, I'm concerned about this too, as I work really hard to produce my own music, and slave away at a dayjob mainly in hopes of having a little extra cash to invest in my musical endeavours. You have some interesting points to make. I guess that although I've been making/performing music since I was 12, the only times of ever made any money doing it were when I chose to pursue more commercial musical activities, such as playing piano on cruise ships (yikes!)... I'd love to make a living being creative, but I've always had doubts about the viability of earning a living solely by doing artistic and less popular types of projects. It may really have to be a labor of love for many. I'm sure that some out there with more business savvy than I can come up with ways to make money doing it though, through performance or otherwise. If you love it as much as I do though, you will find a way to keep doing it with or without income!
On a different note, making money performing can also be extremely difficult,
at least for those in a local market in the US (I'm in Chicago). This isn't
just an issue with techno - I know incredibly talented jazz musicians who can't
seem to make a dime playing. It probably has to do with a mass media culture
that is constantly pushing conformity and very mainstream pop products on
everyone. Sales and image really trump talent and quality these days (maybe
that was always so), and most musicians would rather focus on their art then
spending the majority of their time marketing themselves. Not only that, but
here in Chicago there are far too many performers willing to play for almost
nothing, so a performance is really not worth very much unless you are a big
draw. Depends on the venue but it is definitely tough going.
I don't know, it might just be being stuck in the midwest USA that creates a real sense of isolation - the only way I see to being successful is to have a ton of money to invest in promoting yourself on a big scale, as they say "it takes money to make money." And a lot of independent artists and labels don't have the funds to do this. Which brings us back to P2P, and the fact that maybe for the little guy, it might improve your odds a little, and if you are going to be doing it for free anyway, at least it's easier to reach a diverse audience around the world.
~David
---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: Re: (313) future ??
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:50:20 +1300
From: Simon Kong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 313 <[email protected]>
I've heard the 'try before you buy' argument before . and I certainly
think it has merit' as I have gone through a similar experience with
several pieces of software that I now own.
However in the case of vinyl or music I have a few issues, with the
suggestion that P2P will have a positive influence.
I think the first and most important is the buying culture of young
people. While file sharing has a potential to expose people to new
music, if they can find the music they like for free on a P2P network.
Why would they then try and find similar music at a much higher cost
in an specialist format (vinyl) or even CD.
As mentioned the good sounds you find on P2P will most likely never
be available at your local store. Perhaps only over the net, which
requires a credit card .. etc etc. Not impossible but more difficult
than search and download.
While we grew up with vinyl, the general music listener under the age
of 24 will not be as familiar with it or share the same affinity with
the medium as an older person would.
/
My assertion would be that P2P networks are an example of the future
of music distribution.
How will new music producers develop income from their art?
/
I think it says exciting things about live performance! as this will
be a distinct way that the artist can create income from their work.
However, as the 'underground' (313) are we interested in following
ourselves into a corner, or should we be willing to define the future
of music distribution in our own networks.
I think the free distribution of music will certainly inject life in
to a very hidden sound, but will it also turn it into a labor of
love for producers.
What is Anarchy without respect ?
.simon
ps. this was typed listening to free music from http://www.rohformat.de
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1. I've never been concerned about doing things that are illegal, isn't that what makes underground, well, underground? Hey, I'm an anarchist though...
2. As I have said many times, I buy as many records as I can afford. I love vinyl. Soulseek does not change my record buying, it just makes me a better informed consumer. Soulseek actually increases my craving for record buying. The biggest problem is that often I CAN'T FIND MOST OF THE RECORDS I REALLY WANT in stores...
Yes, people will trade your tracks for free and make new friends while doing
it. BUT, they just might buy your record when they see it, which is pretty
unlikely if they never heard of you before. I bet most true music lovers feel
the same way I do. In the long run, I just don't buy that P2P will ruin the
industry. I feel the same way about software. I would have never purchased a
legit copy of Ableton if I hadn't tried it, really liked the product, and
decided their company was worth giving my money too.
My most recent craving is some stuff from Breakin Records, never listened to
that label before, some wicked electro and acid. That actually stems from
checking out a link to Cylob's live set off of his website. But I bet none of
the local shops carry it. I really don't like internet mail order much, but I
might have to do it, because distribution in the US sucks right now.
~David
---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: Re: (313) tons of tones / future ??
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:12:23 +1300
From: Simon Kong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 313 <[email protected]>
Alright ' I know there is no ethics going down on this thread.
but it's starting to sound down right loverly ' this business
of trading other people music without their permission ..
just cause I'm friends with my drug dealer doesn't make it legal
..
I guess I'm mostly wondering where all this is going to take us .
Pitch Black ' NZ biggest electronic band have basically committed
to never making money from an album due to the ability to copy
and share their music ..
It hasn't stopped them making music, but their love is our
enjoyment.
Six months ago . the word about P2P is that it will only hurt
the majors ' but as we are all obviously willing to seek and
share more obscure and leftfield music . where does that leave
the minority players . .
also only money being talked about here ' is going towards the
development of a better file sharing network ..
/ please understand I'm not speaking against P2P
I am just interested to see where people on the list
believe this will take music and the artist ' as we
progress down this path ..
there may be some positive outcomes in the long run ..
but currently ' if your music is good .. then expect for
it to be handed around freely while people make friends
in the process ..
I'm not innocent ' just curious about future navigation
.simon
Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote:
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Simon Hindle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
My favourite thing about slsk is the way you can chat with the people
you're downloading from, and browse their other files as well.
exactly. there really is a community based around it with many
many cool people. i never just chat on the internet (im more a
message board/email list kinda guy ;) but ive spent some time
talking to people just learning about good music.
tom
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