Kirk,
Thanks. Lots of good stuff. I should take a look at QPDF. Up to now my
PDF requirements have been primarily to recreate existing hard copy forms in 4D
filled out from record data. I don’t need to fix what is not broken, but PDF
requirements seems to have creeped to the forefront in every new project I take
on or feature requests in my existing projects.
John
John Baughman
1331 Auwaiku Street
Kailua, Hawaii 96734
(808) 262-0328
[email protected]
> On Jun 14, 2018, at 10:48 AM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> John,
> Using QPDF is much like using PRINT FORM. The plugin commands allow you to
> precisely control where on the page something (text, line, image) will
> appear. Unlike PRINT FORM you can add to existing pages. This greatly
> simplifies, for instance, adding page numbers in the form of "Page x of y".
> You can traverse back and forth through your pages if necessary.
>
> QPDF allows me to use templates. These can be pre-formatted PDFs or I can
> build one on the fly. My usual workflow in a method is to create the
> document and set the meta data (author, date, subject, etc. - stuff I don't
> think you can do at all when creating PDFs via print engines). Then I'll
> make the page template with things like the report header and footer info.
> Then I basically run down the page adding material just like I would with
> PRINT FORM. I like to make my methods that add material to the page
> functions that return the last y value. Coupled with a method to check for
> available space and handle page breaks it works well.
>
> I may get around to locating these methods in a component for ease of reuse
> as I think about.
>
> A few other things I can do with the plugin are include existing PDFs. This
> didn't seem like an incredibly useful feature at first but it is. In the
> case of sales quotes some salesmen like to include cut sheets, drawings or
> brochures from the vendor with their bid. Another use is creating or
> reading PDF forms. If you have a PDF form you must populate but the form is
> really just a scan of something you can still place text in the appropriate
> locations on the page. It's a pain but you only have to do it once.
>
> Another benefit I don't believe is available any other way is adding
> bookmarks and internal references. Bookmarks are what you see in the
> sidebar and allow you to navigate large documents. Internal references are
> like anchors on a web page and work the same way.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I have not abandoned traditional print forms by any
> means. It takes some effort to build a PDF form in code for anything beyond
> very simple needs. It's not the right solution for everything. But for
> certain types of documents I'm finding working with it a very deep breath
> of fresh air.
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 11:07 AM JOHN BAUGHMAN via 4D_Tech <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Interesting. I have never had a situation where I did not have a
>> relatively good idea of what a document will look like such that I
>> couldn't create 1 or more variable populated forms to cover all the
>> possibilities.
>>
>>
>> John Baughman
>> 1331 Auwaiku Street
>> Kailua, Hawaii 96734
>> (808) 262-0328
>> [email protected]
>>
>>> On Jun 14, 2018, at 7:14 AM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> John,
>>> Yes. No 4D form printing at all.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 10:14 AM JOHN BAUGHMAN via 4D_Tech <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kirk, are you talking about creating the pdf strictly in code?
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, as Pat pointed out 4D Write Pro can be used, as can 4D forms…
>>>>
>>>> SET PRINT OPTION(Destination option;3;$FolderPath+"MyTest.pdf")
>>>> OPEN PRINTING JOB
>>>> Print form("MyTest4DForm";Form header)
>>>> CLOSE PRINTING JOB
>>>>
>>>> PDFs from 4D forms using this methodology works both on the client and
>> on
>>>> the server.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Baughman
>>>> 1331 Auwaiku Street
>>>> Kailua, Hawaii 96734
>>>> (808) 262-0328
>>>> [email protected]
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 14, 2018, at 5:37 AM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Another option, which may or may not be suitable depending on the
>>>> project,
>>>>> is to build the document with 4DWrite Pro and then simply set the print
>>>>> option and print it:
>>>>>
>>>>> *SET PRINT OPTION*(Orientation option;iPrintOption) // landscape or
>>>> portrait
>>>>>
>>>>> *SET PRINT OPTION*(Destination option;3;$pathname) // PDF
>>>>>
>>>>> *WP USE PAGE SETUP*(oWPdoc)
>>>>>
>>>>> *WP PRINT*(oWPdoc)
>>>>>
>>>>> *SHOW ON DISK*($pathname)
>>>>>
>>>>> This will require you to learn how to program Write Pro, but I think
>> that
>>>>> will be a bit simpler than learning how to create PDFs, it won't cost
>> you
>>>>> any extra, and those skills might come in handy for other 4D projects
>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 at 16:22, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
>>>> [email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just chimed in on a conversation on the forums about using PDF
>> Creator
>>>>>> <http://forums.4d.com/Post/FR/24699370/1/24714745#24714745>. In this
>>>> case
>>>>>> the OP was asking about making it work on the server. I'm sure anyone
>>>> who
>>>>>> tried to make that work just gave a little sympathetic groan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Making PDFs is hard. True - with a Mac or Win10 it's become pretty
>>>> easy to
>>>>>> print-to-PDF. This is really a user-interface feature though. If you
>>>> need
>>>>>> to build a PDF in code and want to work with the BLOB of that document
>>>>>> using the OS print features starts to fall apart. If you want to do
>>>> this on
>>>>>> the server it's a complete non starter in my view.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is where things get tricky in 4D land. Actually pretty much
>>>>>> everywhere I suspect but I don't know everywhere. It's actually
>>>> possible to
>>>>>> build perfectly valid PDFs in native 4D. Neil Denis gave a Summit
>>>>>> presentation in 2016 demonstrating this. Working with his demo gave
>> me a
>>>>>> workable solution for a bit. But sometimes the PDFs wouldn't be valid
>>>> and
>>>>>> wouldn't always open. I don't think it had anything to do with Neil's
>>>> work
>>>>>> but my own additions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From here I spent way too much time building my own PDF component in
>> all
>>>>>> native 4D. PDF language is all text based so there's no reason you
>>>> can't do
>>>>>> it in native 4D (well, without the flate/deflate compression). But it
>> is
>>>>>> hard. The challenge was sort of interesting to me and I now have a
>>>> fairly
>>>>>> good understanding of how a PDF document is structured internally. In
>>>> the
>>>>>> end I had a working solution for a specific set of uses and the files
>>>> were
>>>>>> always valid <https://www.pdf-online.com/osa/validate.aspx>. The
>>>> problem
>>>>>> was it wasn't a full solution. I didn't have bookmark capability, for
>>>>>> example. Or form fields. It was decent but very limited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW - making PDF is hard. Debugging PDF is even harder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Prior to that I tried most of the other options I heard folks talk
>> about
>>>>>> here: PHP, HTMLTOX, various schemes for managing printing on user
>>>> machines
>>>>>> and probably some others I've blocked out of my memory. All of them
>>>> worked
>>>>>> to varying degrees of success but all of them also required a slightly
>>>>>> different way of coding, for the ones that build the PDF in code. I
>>>> could
>>>>>> never sell the idea of the pricier solutions (this is for the in-house
>>>> app
>>>>>> I wrote).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A couple of months ago the need for more robust PDF features came up.
>>>>>> Looking at my work I realized it just wasn't worthwhile for me to
>> spend
>>>> the
>>>>>> time to build it out in my own component so I took another look around
>>>> at
>>>>>> the available options. I happened to email Rob Laveaux with some
>>>> question
>>>>>> about his plugins. He got back to me suggesting I look at QPDF
>> instead.
>>>> And
>>>>>> here is where this turns into a big plug for QPDF. The licensing on
>> the
>>>>>> older set is pricey. And at 1k euro QPDF isn't cheap but it has the
>> same
>>>>>> no-hassel many of his products do. QPDF uses a C library (DynaPDF,
>>>> which is
>>>>>> a large chunk of the licensing fee).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Working with QPDF did require me to refactor the methods that produce
>> my
>>>>>> key documents. And I had to spend some time prior to that learning how
>>>> to
>>>>>> work with the new command set. I think the time I spent studying the
>>>> Adobe
>>>>>> docs on PDF construction helped make this go faster. The result is
>> what
>>>> I
>>>>>> consider a successful refactor: cleaner code, less of it, more
>>>> capability,
>>>>>> better output. Plus a core PDF module that makes building new docs
>>>> pretty
>>>>>> simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I mentioned in the post on the forums I am starting to look at a
>>>> 'print'
>>>>>> job as more of 'producing a document' than a piece of paper. If it's
>>>>>> something that needs to be stored, shared, downloaded from the web or
>>>>>> produced on the server it's going to need to be produced in a blob and
>>>>>> that's going to be a PDF. If it's truly something a user needs as a
>>>> piece
>>>>>> of paper it's a print job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Producing PDFs in code means no form editor. This isn't always a bad
>>>> thing.
>>>>>> Sometimes it's as much work to make a complex document render
>> correctly
>>>>>> through a 4D print form as it is to simply write the code to assemble
>>>> the
>>>>>> data. It really depends on the data and the document.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kirk Brooks
>>>>>> San Francisco, CA
>>>>>> =======================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *We go vote - they go home*
>>>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>>>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *************************************************
>>>>> CatBase - Top Dog in Data Publishing
>>>>> tel: +44 (0) 207 118 7889
>>>>> w: http://www.catbase.com
>>>>> skype: pat.bensky
>>>>> *************************************************
>>>>> **********************************************************************
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kirk Brooks
>>> San Francisco, CA
>>> =======================
>>>
>>> *We go vote - they go home*
>>> **********************************************************************
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Kirk Brooks
> San Francisco, CA
> =======================
>
> *We go vote - they go home*
> **********************************************************************
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