On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Tero Kivinen <[email protected]> wrote:

> Thomas Watteyne writes:
> > PANIDs & MIC keys
> >
> > In practice, I see two mechanisms for a node to filter EBs: PANid (2B)
> and MIC
> > key (16B)
> >
> >   * PANIDs. The IEEE802.15.4 header contains a PANID, a 2-byte number.
> >     Charlie, Zelda and the other could set they networks to different
> PANIDs.
> >     A receiving radio will simply drop any packet which has a destination
> >     PANID set to a value different than the one if was configured on.
> This is
> >     easy to do, but comes IMO with a couple of drawbacks. First, there
> are
> >     only 65534 PANDS available, so collisions are possible. Second, and
> more
> >     importantly, this doesn't prevent a 6TiSCH node from mistaking a
> >     IEEE802.15.4 frame created by some (possibly proprietary protocol)
> for an
> >     EB. And finally, nodes can be made "PANID-agile": the joining node
> scans
> >     all PANIDs looking for a nearby 6TiSCH networks, so PANID-based
> >     discrimination doens't help here
>
> PAN ID cannot be used to identify networks before you join to them.
> They are only used after you have joined the network to separate
> multiple networks working on the same area. I.e. when the PAN
> coordinator sets up the network he finds "free" PAN ID and starts
> using that. If he at any point hears someone using the same PAN ID, he
> will notice there is PAN ID collision and change his PAN ID to
> something else. What this PAN ID collision and changing of PAN ID
> means for TSCH network is bit fuzzy for now. It is one of those issues
> we are discussing in the maintenance work, as PAN ID conflict
> resolution is mandatory feature of 802.15.4, but this allows very easy
> way to make easy DoS attacks against networks.
>

I haven't seen text about networks changing PANids on-the-fly when someone
else is using it, but that's a separate discussion.


>
> >   * MIC keys. I that context, the MIC is simply a 4-8 byte "super CRC"
> which
>                                                     ^^^
> 4-16 bytes, lengths are 32, 64 or 128-bits, i.e. 4, 8, or 16 bytes
> long.
>

agreed


>
> >     essentially is calculated differently depending the key used.
> Through this
> >     mechanism, a node can detect with great confidence (keys are 16 bytes
> >     long) that this packet is indeed an EB sent by a 6TiSCH network.
>
> Keys are 16 bytes long, but if the MIC sent is only 4 bytes, then
> there is 2^32 propability that random packet will have correct mic...
>

agreed.


> For the network separator IE, the length does not need to be that
> long, it can be made unique in other ways. For example if we already
> use unique allocation of OUIs, and then add company internal ID to
> that, we might use 5 byte content for the IE.
>
> > In that context, I would favor MIC keys, possibly in conjuction with
> PANIDs,
> > although the contribution of the latter is smaller.
> >
> > But what are we talking about?
> >
> > Before giving my answer to your puzzle, I'd like to somehow limit its
> scope,
> > and highlight the security+efficiency implications.
> >
> > Security in Charlie's network is of paramount importance, and the
> discussion
> > we're having about EBs has very little to do with the security of the
> network.
>
> As long as it does not use draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal, which will
> require EBs to be secure.
>
> > When a joining node hears one of Charlie's EBs, the only thing it can do
> is
> > start a joining process. This, as we discuss in the security DT, probably
> > means contacting the network's JCE to ask to join. The *only* thing we
> are
> > talking about here is how to prevent a joining node from initiating a
> joining
> > process with the wrong network. Why? Because that network will reject the
> > node, and the node will have to re-try to another network. In reality,
> we're
> > mostly talking about coexistence between networks, and speeding up the
> joining
> > process.
>
> Yes. And for that network identifier IE is much better way than MIC.
>

Why? If I receive a EB which I cannot authenticate, I reject it exactly the
same way I would reject an EB with a netid IE I don't like,


>
> > Under no circumstance can anything of what we're discussing allow a
> joining
> > node to wrongfully join a network.
> >
> > My answer to the puzzle
> >
> > So here are my answer to the puzzle: I would leave the options open.
>
> I do not think the option 3 is useful in any case where any security
> is needed. Effectively option 3 is exactly same as option 1 in
> security, and in that case you rule out draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal for
> that network.
>


We're been over this so many times.... The well-known key does not offer
you any security, i.e. it's security value is the same as option 1, but it
gives you the convenience of early network segragation when a new node
heard a bunch of EBs...



> --
> [email protected]
>
_______________________________________________
6tisch mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch

Reply via email to