Pascal,

Yes, it also makes sense from the point of view of an SF, as join is one-shot 
traffic and we don’t want to allocate cells in response to that, even though 
the response in the particular case of minimal-security can be trusted.

I am arguing that for this particular behavior to be achieved, we do not need 
separate codepoints for upstream and downstream. Do you agree with that?

Mališa


> On 1 Dec 2017, at 13:18, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hello Mališa
> 
> Note that we are overloading the meaning of a TC by making it a tool for the 
> SF to make cell allocations. If we need the ToS field for real QoS purpose 
> then we can define which classes we use or use new ones.
> Tagging the way back may help completing the join in the face of data. Using 
> TC as QoS better than best effort, a router will drop a lesser packet to make 
> room for  the join response, so we have not gone through the hassle of the 
> first half of the join to be destroyed in the way back.
> 
> Makes sense?
> 
> Pascal
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 6tisch [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mališa Vucinic
> Sent: vendredi 1 décembre 2017 12:12
> To: Michael Richardson <[email protected]>
> Cc: 6tisch <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [6tisch] Tagging join traffic
> 
> Pascal, Michael,
> 
> Since data traffic in the network is treated as DSCP class 000, i.e. best 
> effort, it will necessarily have lower priority over all other classes, 
> including class 100 that we decided to use for join with specific AF43 and 
> AF42 codepoints. This means that both AF43 (join request) packets and AF42  
> (join response) packets have precedence over best-effort traffic. We just 
> define the rule that this particular traffic class should not influence SF 
> decisions on cell allocation.
> 
> The only benefit of differentiating between join request and join response 
> (using AF43 and AF42) is then in case an intermediate router happens to have 
> both packet types in its buffer, in which case it would more likely drop join 
> request than the join response. I am questioning the need for this given that 
> the 6tisch router is a constrained device and will likely have a common 
> buffer for both best-effort and 100 class, and will therefore first drop 
> best-effort traffic. To me, the advantage of differentiating between join 
> request and join response seems marginal, yet it introduces the code 
> complexity of handling an additional case. Plus, we won't be able to reuse 
> the exact same mechanism for zero-touch, as in that case downstream join 
> traffic is still untrusted.
> 
> My proposal would be to use AF42 for both upstream and downstream join 
> traffic.
> 
> Mališa
> 
>> On 29 Nov 2017, at 19:19, Michael Richardson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Richardson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Yet not sure the MAY on the return path is a good idea. Either make 
>>>> it a SHOULD or a no no. Otherwise we do not know what to expect in a 
>>>> given network with mixed implementations.
>> 
>>> I can live with SHOULD.
>>> SHOULD means that a co-located JRC which has access to the scheduling 
>>> APIs can do the right thing and not have to spend a byte on DSCP.
>>> As I say, the 6LBR can also have an ACL to recognize the join 
>>> responses.
>> 
>> okay, here is the new version of Join response tagging:
>> 
>> 5.3.  Identification of Join Response Traffic
>> 
>>  Join Response traffic from the JRC to the proxy (and hence to the
>>  pledge) SHOULD be marked with a DCSP code AF42.  AF42 has lower drop
>>  probability than AF43: if the JRC will respond at all, then dropping
>>  the response traffic would cause the pledge to have to retransmit,
>>  using even more bandwidth.
>> 
>>  When the JRC is not co-located with the DODAG root (6LBR), then the
>>  code point provides a clear indication to the 6LBR that this is join
>>  response traffic.  (There are other mechanisms that the 6LBR could
>>  use, in particular it could use an ACL to recognize the join 
>> traffic)
>> 
>>  Due to the converging nature of the DODAG, the cells immediately
>>  below the 6LBR are often the most congested, and from that point down
>>  there is progressively less (or equal) congestion.  If the 6LBR paces
>>  itself when sending join response traffic then it ought to never
>>  exceed the bandwidth allocated to the best effort traffic cells.  If
>>  the 6LBR has the capacity (if it is not constrained) then it should
>>  therefore provide some buffers in order to satisfy the Assured
>>  Forwarding behaviour.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Please realize that the tagging that we do for 
>>> 6tisch-minimal-security will also be identically used for 
>>> 6tisch-zerotouch-join, and that traffic might be larger, and it will 
>>> take some additional round trips before we know that the node is 
>>> legitimate.  (many RTTs if we have to use DTLS, two if we can have 
>>> EDHOC)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Michael Richardson <[email protected]>, Sandelman Software Works 
>> -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
>> 
>> 
>> 
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