Thank you, Hiro, for your insights. I apologize to everyone for my intense and fervent approach; I acknowledge that I often overlook subtleties. To add a bit of humor, even my son has saved my contact as "Rambo" in his mobile phone. :-)
Vic On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 00:55, hiro wrote: > this is mostly wild speculation. further, the numbers are not > representative at all. > since the import of the (possibly redundent) 9k amd64 work from "labs" > (which in this case might mean geoff+charles?) 2 years ago there were > zero active developers contributing to 9legacy. > > please note, that stuff has been developed in the dark and without any > kind of open community process, also not in 9legacy but in some other > fork (that is unknown to me). it was pulled in by 9legacy but i have > no clue from where and why. > there was near zero communication about that other fork, and what it's > plan was, or who might want to use 9k nowadays, and for what purposes. > since this was not developed in the open and not discussed with 9front > people we are at this point largely ignorant of what 9k can do. i > would appreciate a more in-depth comparison if possible, though i fear > 9k is about as dead as plan9 4th edition (and 9legacy for that matter) > at this point. sorry for my doubts. > > On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 5:13 PM <vic.thac...@fastmail.fm> wrote: >> >> My understanding is that the initial request came from a 9legacy member to >> the 9front community, and the responses were quite intriguing. It has led me >> to ponder how we might bridge the gap between these communities. There seems >> to be conflict on both sides, and for some reason, I hold 9front to higher >> standards—perhaps because of our more idealistic roots. The core mission of >> 9front was always to advance the Plan 9 tradition, but not at the cost of >> alienating others. >> >> From what I observe, there seem to be only a handful of active developers >> remaining in each group. Initially, I believed we had around 30 active >> developers in 9front and about 7 in 9legacy, but I now think I may have >> overestimated these numbers. It appears that many are staying on the >> sidelines, possibly due to past grievances, which could explain the >> responses I've seen. The developers who are active might be overextended, >> while those who are less active might feel marginalized. >> >> Vic >> >> >> On Sun, May 12, 2024, at 22:23, q...@nopenopenope.net wrote: >> > On Sun May 12 14:43:17 +0200 2024, vester.thac...@fastmail.fm wrote: >> >> I don't mind the ad hominem attacks. I just hope things improve. I do >> >> find it ironic that I'm addressing the 9front community about >> >> collaboration and inclusiveness when I recall those as being two reasons >> >> for the inception of 9front. >> >> >> >> Vic >> > >> > You hit the nail on the head there. Why *are* you addressing just the >> > 9front community or assuming there is no willingness to collaborate on >> > its part? 9legacy users so far have expressed interest in someone >> > else porting dp9ik (David for instance) or demanded explanations about >> > DES cracking (Richard) or asked for others to port or fix fossil on >> > 9front (Lucio), but who explicitely said that they would like to put >> > in some work themselves and collaborate with 9front people? Maybe I'm >> > beginning to misremember the rest of the thread, am I missing >> > anything? Could you point to *specific examples*? >> > >> > 9front users demand code because they've already put in a lot of work >> > and it has been often ignored or dismissed, and because it would be up >> > to them to backport it to 9legacy -- why would they do double duty for >> > a system they don't use and a community which is generally not >> > receptive to their work? Also, do you realize that 9front right now >> > has upwards of 10500 changes in the repository, after 13 years? >> > Bringing 9legacy up to date as you've proposed would require a >> > colossal amount of work, all just to obtain... 9front. Do you >> > believe it has diverged to the point where backporting hardware >> > support, fixing bugs and broken or incomplete implementations and so >> > on will result in anything other than what 9front already is? >> > >> > You yourself demand everyone, especially the 9front community, to make >> > suggestions, start projects, etc. What about you? What do you >> > suggest to do and which projects would you take part in? That's what >> > "just send the code" implies. Promises don't fix bugs or help >> > implement programs, nor help fix this one-sided conversation. >> > >> > I'm asking these questions yet I fear that they will meet radio >> > silence or more empty walls of text, as it happens too often here >> > when asking "why" or how it came to this. I hope I'm wrong. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > qwx >> > >> > PS: I was about to hit send when I received Richard's mail. >> > Richard, thank you for the constructive and detailed response. >> > I hope this marks a turn of the tide. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tcf128fa955b8aafc-M28d19e105429cec6856056a0 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
