Hi All,

Guys, there is more fun here. Many ATMs (at least in Russia) use
GPRS/EDGE modems to send data to banks. I doubt they use
really good encryption at high level and I fear they nay not use
encryption at all. So if you can decrypt ATM's GPRS/EDGE uplink,
then you can get a lot of credit card codes. I heard rumors that
criminals use IMSI-catching on ATMs to get credit card information,
and passive attack will make it just easier.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 16:59, Eckhard Jokisch <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
> seems that not all mails get thru the list at the momen. I.e. I did not
> get Karsten's OP.
>
> My position to this is:
> First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then
> you win.
> At present the public is waking up and the stage of their fight is starting.
> I suggest to carry on and to disclose every research result that is reached.
> And if they really start fighting let's see if there is a way to talk to
> them. That might end up in a lawsiute against them as they claim Karsten
> did something illegal but it doesn#t have to end up like this.
>
> Obviously there is a bit more freedom and justice remaining in Germany
> than in the states and I do not want to go to the US anyway during this
> lifetime. Would be a pitty if I could not go to some workshops in UK
> anymore but for me it is important to protect the public against the
> risk that A5/1 exposes to them. Thus I can take some of the grey stuff
> on my shoulders if you like.
>
> We should start to talk to the banks for example. ANZ Bank
> (Australia,NZ,... ) is very proud of their mobile banking system that
> enables customers to do instant money transfer via cell phone If it is
> possible to intercept this kind of transactions on a private GSM-network
> (that does not belong to one of the big players) the banks will get
> interrested in putting force to the public networks because the damage
> that will be caused by criminals ( and they will do this) will be enormous.
>
> Cheers
> Eckhard
>> Hi Karsten:
>>
>> I will like to give you more info.
>>
>> Preliminary info: It is totally legal to listen, decrypt or decode your own 
>> mobile phone worldwide. I have an international radio license from United 
>> Nations, and read all legal stuff about this with lawyers.
>> What could be illegal, is to distribute or use against another party.
>>
>> The problem is that cell operations do not want to invest in upgrading the 
>> technology, now OBSOLETE. As you know, GSM Rainbow Tables are available 
>> worldwide since 1998. Many Spy Shops are NOW selling the equipment for u$s 
>> 500.000.-! (i could post all sellers)
>>
>> It could decode and listen to a conversation in 2-3 seconds MAXIMUM. The 
>> main problem for them is the active channels to monitor 4-8-12-16. More 
>> control channels, more hardware, more expensive.
>>
>> Academic research is totally legal. Radio first code was MORSE. So, GSM is 
>> similar. The problem is that commercial people do not want to upgrade their 
>> technology ($$$). And prefer to persuade people investigation.
>>
>> Nowadays, WPA-Wireless is also easily intercepted, 3G or KASUMI could be 
>> decoded also, AES256 U.S. official govermement algorythm could be attack 
>> easily since Asiacrypt2009, etc.  NSA or any agency are implementing their 
>> own private distributed networks (check accessdata.com)
>>
>> What I suggest is to use private and stronger crypto systems. Solution: 
>> PRIVATE Networks. (Like TETRAPOL)
>>
>> Javier
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:07:50 +0100
>>> Subject: [A51] No demonstration at 26C3 today
>>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> Congratulations to the discussion we started on the security of A5/1.
>>> This was the primary goal and we did it in very challenging time
>>> frame. Thanks to everyone!
>>>
>>> The demonstration planed for today is canceled. Let me explain the
>>> reasons and perhaps start a discussion on how the project should
>>> progress from here:
>>>
>>> A.  The GSMA and some of its members make strong claims that what we
>>> do is illegal. We do not believe that is the case and that this
>>> research has not once crossed the line into illegality. However, not
>>> being lawyers ourselves and knowing how complex wire-tapping laws are,
>>> we want to reconfirm with our counsel that using the rainbow tables
>>> for academic purposes is legal.
>>>
>>> B.  Starting the discussion on how much security GSM deserves was one
>>> of our main goals. We did it. The next steps must not contradict this
>>> positive message we want to get across. I'll put this as a question to
>>> the list: Do we risk killing a positive dialogue with operators and
>>> suppliers by providing attack tools too fast? I understand that we are
>>> 15 years into hacking GSM, but it did hit some industry players as
>>> news this week. Would it be fair to give them a few extra weeks to
>>> digest what should have been known years ago?
>>>
>>> Please let me know what you all think ...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>      -Karsten
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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-- 
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
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