Hi Sam,

Just to note that this all looks good to me and
proceeding as you indicate seems like a fine plan.

Thanks,
S

On 06/20/2012 08:15 PM, Sam Hartman wrote:
>>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Farrell <[email protected]> writes:
> 
> 
>     Stephen> (1) 3.4: the abnf in 3.1 has service-specifics which can have
>     Stephen> 0 or more service-specific values but the AVP here is called
>     Stephen> "GSS-Acceptor-Service-specific" (i.e. its singular).  If >1
>     Stephen> service-specific value is part of a name does that mean all of
>     Stephen> those are put in one AVP (with what separator?) or that
>     Stephen> multiple AVPs are sent? (I can't recall the RADIUS rules on
>     Stephen> AVPs right now).
> 
> Good catch.
> my preference is to send one AVP with / separator.
> I.E. send the text string that is input.
> However this has not been discussed.
> 
>     Stephen> (2) Section 6: where are the pseudo-random and truncate
>     Stephen> functions defined? pseudo-random is presumably from 3961 but
>     Stephen> exactly which one? (
> 
> 
> The one for the enctype of the mechanism in question.
> I.E. if this is eap-aes128, then the GMSK is an aes-128-cts-hmac-sha1-96
> key so you use the aes128-cts-hmac-sha1-96 pseudo-random function.
> 
>     Stephen> Ah - If its from 4402 as 6.3 says, then
>     Stephen> please move that one line up to where CRK is defined.)
> 
> Sounds like we need to specify what pseudo-random and make it clear that
> this in an internal call to pseudo-random, not the pseudo-random
> construction from 4402  that is exposed to users.
> (The construction from 4402  is actually the same with a different
> constant fed into the PRF so that an application can never get the same
> pseudo-random output as used for internal key derivation.)
> 
>     Stephen> I'm also confused about "truncate(L, T0 || T1 || .. || Tn)",
>     Stephen> if "||" is catenation and truncate(L,x) returned the left-most
>     Stephen> L bits of x, then adding more Tn's (on the right) will not have
>     Stephen> any effect after a while. 
> 
> Exactly.
> This construction deals with the fact that a Kerberos PRF may output
> less bits than you need. So, you'd kind of expect that only the bits
> that you need count towards the key.
> The truncation and expansion is not intended to add cryptographic
> strength; either your PRF is good or you're out of luck. It's simply
> intended to deal with a potential mismatch between PRF output length and
> key bits.
> For aes128, l=128 and only t0 counts towards the key because the prf
> output length is also 128.
> So in aes128's case this devolves to a simple call to the prf.
> 
>     Stephen> I'm also not clear about the limits
>     Stephen> for "n" - are you just meant to iterate "n" until there are
>     Stephen> more than L bits to input to truncate()? If so, then I think
>     Stephen> you need to say that. (I reckon I figured it out in the end,
>     Stephen> but have left the comment as was to show how I got confused;-)
> 
> Right.
> An explanatory paragraph is needed here.
> 
>     Stephen> (3) 6.2 uses the CRK as both sub-session key and ticket
>     Stephen> session key. Is that ok? Not asking you put the explanation in
>     Stephen> the draft, just checking that the WG/authors thought about it.
>     Stephen> (I don't recall 4121 well enough to be sure without reading it
>     Stephen> all again.)
> 
> I wrote that text to make sure the context would be well formed in terms
> of how implementations tend to represent the context and use it for some
> AD-specific applications.
> In practice I don't think anything standards-track will use the ticket
> key if  the sub-session key is present.
> 
> I'm fairly sure this is OK, but I'd appreciate a sanity check from Nico
> or luke or someone else who has looked at 4121 a lot.
> 
>     Stephen> (4) 7.1 & 7.7 - do you really need IETF review for these?
>     Stephen> Wouldn't expert review be ok? Just checking.
> 
> 7.1: I argue IETF review is appropriate because I can't see why anyone
> other than the IETF  would use that registry rather than just grabbing
> their own OID.
> I'd support making it expert review with a note that we cannot currently
> think of a reason for allocation other than to an IETF stream document
> and other allocations are expected to be declined.
> I.E. there's no harm in using that registry for other things, but why
> would you want to?
> 
> 7.7: There are only 32 possible values to be allocated.
> I'd also be totally fine with expert review with a note that experts are
> very likely to insist on IETF stream documents.
>  
> 
>     Stephen> (5) Should there be any warnings about potential timing
>     Stephen> attacks against implementations of this? There are a lot of
>     Stephen> error conditions that say you  MUST send an error so the
>     Stephen> timing of that might give something away. Having said that I
>     Stephen> don't see a case where a secret might leak, though with all
>     Stephen> the potential EAP methods it'd be hard to know for sure, but I
>     Stephen> wonder if the WG have thought about that. (If text needs
>     Stephen> adding it'd be fine to add after IETF LC as well but this
>     Stephen> isn't quite a nit.)
> 
> 
> I know I have not thought about this at all.
> The general public-key timing attacks against say TLS don't seem to
> apply.
> For one thing we don't actually create any new requirements for the EAP
> server.
> So, failure cases where we require an error to be sent are generally
> specific to this mechanism or cases where EAP has already failed and
> generated its own failure.
> However, review could help here.
> 
>     Stephen> ----
> 
>     Stephen> - Is GSS_Pseudo_random MTI? Its a normative reference but 1.3
>     Stephen> doesn't make it clear. (Maybe its later?)
> 
> 
> I consider it MTI.
> 
>     Stephen> - 3.1, "similar to the portion of a [NAI] before the @ symbol"
>     Stephen> sounds quite vague - why say it that way?  (I've seen the
>     Stephen> phrase "similar" generate discusses before.)
> 
> Because the NAI spec is kind of broken and confuses encoding with
> format.
> It's being revised but we don't want to block on that.
> However, the AAA community was really unhappy when they thought we were
> going to actually use the NAI spec.
>     Stephen> - As an alternative to removing the VSA text in 3.4, would
>     Stephen> that be useful as an appendix in the RFC that says "here's
>     Stephen> what we used to do before we had an official assignment...you
>     Stephen> might still see that in the wild" ?
> 
> I like this.
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
>     Stephen> - section 4, 4th para: are the "should"'s here meant to be
>     Stephen> 2119 language? Seems like not, in which case maybe
>     Stephen> s/should/can/ (twice)?
> Definitely not as it's a description of an alternative not taken.
> 
> can seems wrong there to me.
> 
>     Stephen> - 5.8, is there a clear list of EAP methods that provide
>     Stephen> dictionary attack resistance? Could you provide a reference?
>     Stephen> At least the most commonly expected method would be good to
>     Stephen> mention.
> 
> I don't know what the commonly expected method is.
> In general people get this by running over a tunnel.
> 
>     Stephen> - 5.8 - is the back reference to 3.4 correct in the last para
>     Stephen> here?
> 
> It is.
> 
> 
> Yes, I believe so.
> 
>     Stephen> _______________________________________________
>     Stephen> abfab mailing list
>     Stephen> [email protected]
>     Stephen> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/abfab
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
abfab mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/abfab

Reply via email to