On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 1:51 PM Richard Schwerdtfeger <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Dominic, > > We can look at adding this work as part of ARIA 2.0 and the common > accessibility api work for browsers. > I don't think anything I'm asking for is a change in the ARIA spec. I'm basically okay with what's in ARIA 1.1 now. However, we need to nail this down as part of the User Agent Implementation Guide for ARIA 1.1. > The need for this goes beyond screen readers. Alternative input solutions > will need this too. > Sure, of course. > Also, the traditional DOM is going away with web components if that takes > off necessitating more work like this. > What makes you say the DOM is going away? Web components are just an extension of the DOM by letting authors define their own elements, but there's still a pretty well-defined "composed" DOM tree. Assistive technology shouldn't know or care about whether there are web components or not. I think some work is needed to address some gaps right now (for example the IDREF issue that makes some ARIA attributes not work well with web components) but there are workarounds. - Dominic > > > Rich > > > Rich Schwerdtfeger > > [image: graycol.gif]Dominic Mazzoni via Accessibility-ia2 ---12/30/2015 > 07:00:47 PM---Hi, This is a follow-up to a mail thread from June on the > correct mapping of > > From: Dominic Mazzoni via Accessibility-ia2 < > [email protected]> > To: IAccessible2 mailing list < > [email protected]> > Date: 12/30/2015 07:00 PM > Subject: [Accessibility-ia2] aria-colcount and aria-rowcount mapping, > again > Sent by: [email protected] > > ------------------------------ > > > > > Hi, > > This is a follow-up to a mail thread from June on the correct mapping of > aria-rowcount, aria-colcount, aria-rowindex, aria-colindex, etc. to > IAccessible2. > > The primary intended use case is when all of the rows and columns can't be > loaded, for performance reasons. > > The current spec does not solve the problem that screen readers need a way > to request that the page load more rows / columns. I agree this is > important and I'd be happy to discuss this in a separate thread, but I > think it's out of the scope of what can be done in ARIA and I don't see any > reason why we shouldn't move forwards with the current proposal in the > meantime. > > Jamie wrote: > > In order to do table navigation, screen readers need to be able to > navigate > from a given cell to the cell in the next column or the next row, as > well as being able to fetch all cells in a given row or column. If the > numbering is not sequential, we can't simply increase indexes to do > this. No API I know of supports something like this. > > > Totally agreed that screen readers need to be able to navigate from cell > to cell and fetch rows at a time. Note that the spec requires the numbering > to be sequential, so you don't need to worry about that. > > I'd like to point out that in vanilla HTML it's quite common for tables to > have missing cells already. Here's a trivial example: > > <table> > <tr> > <td>1, 1</td> > </tr> > <tr> > > <td>1, 2</td>f > > > <td>2, 2</td> > </tr> > </table> > > In this table, there's no cell 2, 1 even though there are 2 columns and 2 > rows. When a screen reader calls IAccessibleTable2::cellAt(2, 2) it returns > null. > > Therefore my proposal is to do the same thing with a table that uses ARIA > to change its row and column indexes. The browser would do the work of > interpreting the ARIA and would present a virtual table via IAccessible2, > with some cells missing. Screen readers shouldn't have to do any extra work > to deal with most such tables because they already need to be able to > handle missing cells, so this wouldn't be any different. > > The obvious interpretation of aria-rowindex=-1 would be for the browser to > return an error from IAccessibleTable2::nRows. We'll have to figure out > what to do if that breaks existing screen readers. > > The alternative proposal seems to be to export the ARIA attributes and/or > use group position and have the screen reader announce the ARIA row and > column indexes but otherwise explore the table from the DOM. A couple of > downsides of this are: > > * Users wouldn't get any support at all if they use an older screen reader > * Screen readers wouldn't be able to jump to a cell by row, column index. > (JAWS has a keystroke for this now.) > > - Dominic > > _______________________________________________ > Accessibility-ia2 mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 > > >
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