Although it is possible to have 2 cells I don't think this even close to the norm. Why would we we not just have the screen reader ask to go to a row and column number? It is not difficult to ask the user agent to navigate to compute the effective cell to the right and ask for the user agent to navigate there. We can add a parameter that states to navigate to the first non-empty cell to the ... or whatever algorithm we choose.
Rich Rich Schwerdtfeger From: Dominic Mazzoni <[email protected]> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, James Teh <[email protected]> Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list <[email protected]>, [email protected] Date: 01/04/2016 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] aria-colcount and aria-rowcount mapping, again Rich, I think the problem is, what if the table consists of just two cells, (1, 1) and (999, 999) - the screen reader wants to go to the Jamie, as an alternative, couldn't the screen reader try navigating to the next / previous cell using the row, column index, but if that fails, fall back on DOM navigation? For example, given a current cell (x, y), if the user wants to go right - to the next cell in the same row, try (x + 1, y) but if that's empty, use the accessibility tree to navigate to the next sibling. Similarly, given (x, y) if the user wants to go down - to the same column in the next row, try (x, y + 1), but if that's empty, use the accessibility tree to navigate to the next row, then try column x in that row, and if that fails, navigate to the first cell in that row. Anyway, I would be fine with also extending IAccessibleTableCell. On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 6:51 AM Richard Schwerdtfeger <[email protected]> wrote: Would it not be better to just navigate to a given row and column index? Why limit it to just the cell in a direction? Rich Schwerdtfeger James Teh ---01/03/2016 10:55:11 PM---On 29/12/2015 5:52 AM, Dominic Mazzoni via Accessibility-ia2 wrote: > Totally agreed that screen rea From: James Teh <[email protected]> To: Dominic Mazzoni <[email protected]>, IAccessible2 mailing list < [email protected]> Date: 01/03/2016 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] aria-colcount and aria-rowcount mapping, again Sent by: [email protected] On 29/12/2015 5:52 AM, Dominic Mazzoni via Accessibility-ia2 wrote: > Totally agreed that screen readers need to be able to navigate from > cell to cell and fetch rows at a time. Note that the spec requires the > numbering to be sequential, so you don't need to worry about that. When I said sequential, I also meant contiguous; i.e. 1, 2, 3, not 1, 2, 5. > > I'd like to point out that in vanilla HTML it's quite common for > tables to have missing cells already. Missing cells only towards the end of rows, never in the middle or at the start. So, you might not be able to move to the next cell at the end of an incomplete row, but that's okay because you've already seen all of the cells on that row. Conversely, if there are cells missing at the start or in the middle of a row, it may be impossible to get to other cells in the row. > Screen readers shouldn't have to do any extra work to deal with most > such tables because they already need to be able to handle missing > cells, so this wouldn't be any different. > See above. Start/middle gaps are a problem and I can't even think of a good way to handle this. This is why I am probably more for this solution: > The alternative proposal seems to be to export the ARIA attributes > and/or use group position and have the screen reader announce the ARIA > row and column indexes but otherwise explore the table from the DOM. > * Screen readers wouldn't be able to jump to a cell by row, column > index. (JAWS has a keystroke for this now.) Hmm. That certainly is a problem, yes. I guess another solution could be to extend IAccessibleTableCell to provide a way to get to the next cell in a given direction. I *think* that would solve the start/middle gap problem. Jamie -- James Teh Executive Director, NV Access Limited Ph +61 7 3149 3306 www.nvaccess.org Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess SIP: [email protected] _______________________________________________ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list [email protected] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 [attachment "graycol.gif" deleted by Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM] [attachment "graycol.gif" deleted by Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM]
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