Hi All
Let me articulate 2 points
1 The purpose of highlighting the fee issue is to bring on table that the
attitude of expecting things for free is not ok, we need to come over it.
When one does so in the mainstream, the usual reaction is to cover it up
with sympathy. We need to be careful about such negative mindset. For, it
tends to perpetuate the bechare mindset, which, does immense harm to us. As
Prashant said, it also, comes in the way of quality service and activities.
Until and unless there is a financial model in place it only retards quality
services. I do appreciate different point of view. AccessIndia to me, means
by and large empowerment. I feel it pertinant to do my bit to raise the bar
and talk on issue which is necessary to speak out and which is usually
ducked.
2 The second point I had raised was that it is necessary to inform their
organisers about their inability to attend. Food got wasted and if the
information was given to the organisers, food and money could have got
saved. The saved money could have been utilised to a more productive use.
We definately need to be responsible citizen. This is certainly a bit we can
do.
Guys, lets go ahead.
Harish.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amit Bhatt" <[email protected]>
To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
concerningthe disabled." <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] AccessIndia convention
Friends,
Though I could not make my presence in the 4th convention of
Accesindia group this time, and thus I don't deem myself to be
entitled to give my comment on the current thread, however, I thought
to put my view across after following this discussion on the board.
I have also been organizing such events and seminars since last 7-8
years and yes, undeniably it is not an easy chore to make the
arrangement without getting the full cooperation from the members. It
becomes more thorny task when people do not submit the said
registration amount. Being an another organizer I too can understand
the intricacy in arranging the things in to a proper system and I
strongly endorse the view of submitting the registration fee but as
Ms. Sherene said, perhaps many of us have misunderstood what Mr.
Avinash wanted to communicate here. This is also a cause that the
entire discussion is moving to the direction that has nothing to do
with the original message.
The problem arises when some of us do not welcome the critical
observation as I understand Avinash was responding to a mail in this
regard and everyone has his or her own opinion.
Now I'll come to the point, I am astonished to se the response from
those members who all the time blame the blindness for demand and not
following the money matter despite of the fact that the people here
also clame to be a part of mainstream.
Friends, if we are really a part of mainstreamed world, then I don't
think there was any need to always include the blindness for demand
and so called bagging. I have done all my schooling, college with
mainstream communities only. Moreover I have also experienced this
attitude of not giving the registration fee and etc amongst the
sighted people or so called mainstreamed world in such conferences and
seminars as I do participate in the convention and colloquium
organized for the sighted people as well. So why I am sharing it with
you all to urge please do not include the blindness or the people with
vision impairment in every disparaged act or action. Avoiding the
registration charges or expecting the things free of cost has nothing
to do with the disability, but it can be a nature or mental propensity
of any human being on this earth what so ever.
Another point, I don't wanted to say anything about the Non
Governmental Organization in this discussion, but someone has already
talked about these NGO stating that they do not get the fund and it is
really difficult to collect the monetary support, I agree also here to
a great extend, but people blaming the blind for any deprecated
actions or attitude shown by the people, I would please like to ask a
questions here, do you assume that all our NGO's are actually
catering the needs of the disadvantaged people with full honesty and
integrity? If not, then these NGO's are also required to be scaled
with the same line by which the blind people are being scaled. Here it
is important for me to clear that I am not including every NGO in the
example of non sincere case, as there are indeed a few NGO's doing so
well in the favor of disabled or disadvantaged segments of the
society. If any NGO is getting donations from the donors and other
government departments in the name of the blind or disabled, and that
fund is not being properly utilized for the welfare of the people,
then this act of any NGO is nothing more than a bagging from the
benefactors. I do not understand that why our socialist and activist
like Arvin Kesriwal has not demanded to include the NGO's in Lokpal
Bill of India. I don't want to go in the deep discussion just for the
sake of NGO's because "Bat nikalegi to fir door talak jayegi."
So friends, my objective is to simply say that mistakes, bagging, good
attitude or bad attitude is a part of a human nature, it has again
nothing to do with the blindness. Because most of us do not deal with
such activities taking in the mainstreamed world, that is why we find
everything bad happening amongst the blind folks, and presume
everything positive being in sighted or visual world.
Another thing I wanted to tell here that Avinash participated in this
event in behalf of a co-host NGO of this convention and he himself did
not take anything in form of memento given to the members during the
convention. Unfortunately he and JNU was superfluously targeted by
some of the members. And some people had the doubt in the reputation
of Javahar Laal Nehru University Delhi? I believe a well reputed study
centre like JNU is not required any Certification of reputation or
status by any of us. If we have any qualm over it, I think we should
recheck our information and knowledge.
Finally I would conclude my thoughts under below cited points.
1. Every member should submit the said registration amount for the
proper functioning.
2. The problem of being beggar or anticipating things free of cost is
also there in sighted or mainstream communities, not only in
blindness.
3. Being a host and organizer, one has to use proper language and
polite words while addressing to the members. Some of the members have
noticed a harsh formation of words in the written communiqué while the
organizers were showing their annoyance before or after convention.
4. It is also a responsibility of the organizers to depute the people
who could collect the required registration amount from the
participants.
5. There was a mess of information on the registration site and it was
mix of text of old convention, I think these all need to be corrected
in the next time. Fusion group was not given with proper treatment or
people including some of the organizers could not become the witness
of Fusion program. Also the Fusion program was perhaps not covered
under the audio recording.
6. Last but not the least, we all are friend here and none of us would
like to break the heart of others. Suggestions, appreciation and
critics should be welcomed with equal spirit. Let us always try to see
good in bad, and not bad in good. All the organizers of 4th
Accessindia convention including the Moderator and Score Foundation
are appreciated and valued for their every best effort made to finish
a successful convention.
Now let us all come together and enjoy the audio recording of the
convention.
Regards,
Amit Bhatt
On 2/19/14, bijoy sukumaran <[email protected]> wrote:
I am saddened to read the comment by a fellow JNUite regarding the
registration fee of AI convention.
The conferences that some of the centres offer, provide free of
charge, not only quality intellectual discussion, but delicious food
and liquor as well.
The organisers don't have to worry about the funding, some running
around to the administration block and some exchange of letters, the
funding is taken care of.
Now can we expect the same from NGOs which don't have any source of
income other than the good will of the sponsors?
I am in full agreement with him in the matter of free dissemination of
knowledge, but unsure of its practicability.
The idea of free conference for all whereas food for only those who
can pay for it sounds pathetic.
It will be piteous to see some people who have money in their pocket
eat, while some go hungry because of the shortage of money.
Even if the organisers wave off the registration fee in order to
ensure the free flow of knowledge there are other barriers which stand
on this free flow of knowledge dissemination, to travel to the venue a
person will have to spend money for metro, rickshaw and so on.
Demanding rights is not begging, but expecting to get everything free
of cost because of blindness definitely is a beggar's attitude.
On 2/19/14, Prashant Verma <[email protected]> wrote:
I feel very sad to read the comments about the registration fees. All the
registered participants got a USB drive, a smart jute bag and other
material. The cost of this alone would be close to Rs. 500.
The registration fee was not enough to pay for the food, snacks, the
audio
system, tentage, support staff etc.
This kind of reaction will surely discourage people who would thought of
hosting the next convention. Many people took time off from their busy
schedule to help out, this is a sad outcome for them.
If I had the assurance of getting nominal registration fees from
participants I could have organized so many useful programs on a regular
basis at NAB Delhi.
Instead of focussing our energies on devising useful programs and
services
we in the NGO sector have to spend most of our time finding sponsors.
It seems that self sustainability of any project is not really possible
in
the VI community.
If we investigate we will find that this kind of attitude among us is one
of
the reasons why assistive technology development has not taken off in
India.
There is virtually no market for quality products and services among the
visually impaired even though thousands are now employed. We want
everything
free or subsidized.
I am sure that George, Harish myself and others will not get deterred by
this. Our resolve to do something meaningful and productive for the
community is too strong even though we will think twice before accepting
to
host the next AI convention.
-----Original Message-----
From: AccessIndia [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Rahul Bajaj
Sent: 18 February 2014 20:28
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] AccessIndia convention
It's sad that people are trying to defend the indefensible. We are making
a
mountain out of a mole hill. The comment about impoverished blind people
not
being able to pay 500 rupees is laughable to say the least. All those who
are a part of the AI list at least have a computer or a mobile phone.
So, I find it hard to believe that such people would have to run from
pillar to post to accumulate 500 rupees.
We always keep harping about the fact that we deserve empathy and not
sympathy.
This is precisely the reason why most people view us as mere objects of
charity and sympathy.
Forgive me if I'm being rude, but it is on account of such a fickle
mindset
that we always keep asking for reservation instead of improving our
skills
and competence.
On Feb 18, 2014, at 3:42 PM, avinash shahi <[email protected]>
wrote:
I think discussion should not rest on JNU. It is not a centre of
discussion. if I give figures then many would write back alleging me
defending to the core...
But from Sonia's National Advisory Council to Planning Commission,
From mainstream print and electronic media to secretaries positions,
and from Well-known Universities to many Ambacies in the world JNUites
are well placed.
Hope people don't ask anymore questions writing my name, I have
already made clear my point on money issue.
On 2/18/14, Ekinath Khedekar <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear List Members,
Quite amused to see the theme of the discussion.
Dear Avinash,
The state or any organiser simply can not print notes or plead for
sponsorships. The models be it organisational or economic are bound
to fail due to inefficiencies if they are not based on revenue
driving philosopy. When i had come to JNU and seen people enjoying
free delicacies and ending the seminar with out any clear results
achieved, i was made to think that in Mumbai even students and for
that matter anything that we do, we have to pay through our noses.
Universities like JNU receives a grant as they deserve, but what does
it offer in return to the nation?
How many research papers are implemented in mainstream public
affairs, which have changed the development landscape as desired by
so called scholars? You can certainly sensitize us.
I am not sure if the university rankings are done on that basis. It
must be on number of research papers and not their quality,
therefore, not even a single Indian university ranks amongst top 200
universities around the world.
Talking about "begging bowl" mindset, that's the biggest problem in
our society. We would love to call us honourable, but we would not
think twice to lay down most important right of of voting for a
bottle of liquor or 2 rupees a kg grains. That's why most incompetent
rule us.
Hard working guys and cities pay innumerable taxes and so called
Garib keeps breeding with out worrying for their children's bellies.
But i don't blame them. It's the scholars or educated like us who
have to sensitize.
As per this specific case, if the consideration was made for
non-earning students then how many of them approached the organisers
for a leeway?
Were they serious about attaining Gyan in the confrance?
If i was in their place, i would have written to the organisers for
the allowance. Never mind, soon the days are coming where
universities will not get bulk grants but scholarships for performing
students. WB is soon adopting that philosophy. And for a quality
knowledge discimination one would have to pay or has to be so
promising that he is given a scholarship.
But the point missed here is how can i crash in to a place where
entry is conditional on fees? That's quite a pilfering. What
knowledge such people will gain and what will they preach?
Signing off
On 2/18/14, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Sorry, but I disagree. registration fee is not just for food but
also for logistics. If we open sessions for free what if more people
than the seating capacity are turned up. In general, many events
open exhibition for free but not sessions.
Regards,
Srinivasu Chakravarthula | PayPal | @csrinivasu Sent from my iPhone
5C
On 18-Feb-2014, at 13:02, avinash shahi <[email protected]>
wrote:
I'm not against the collecting money from the attendees in such
conventions.
Food and accomodation can't be provided for free. So coopon could
be made manditory.
But as I erlier wrote: nobody should be barred from listening talks
and visiting exhibition solely on ground of non-payment.
Who knows many attendees only attended talks and didn't join all
for food due to their busy schedule.
On 2/18/14, Renuka Warriar Edakkunni <[email protected]> wrote:
Sorry to say Avinash,
Then how are you going to find money for conducting such events by
such non institutional agencies? For the universities and other
corparates, they have their own funds for these purposes, but for
conducting a convention of the mailing groups such as access
india, which is done by voluntary agencies, it will be difficult
to find the funding without a registration fee. Otherwise, they
will have to beg to the sponsering agencies.
Renuka.
On 2/18/14, avinash shahi <[email protected]> wrote:
Those who are saying they have paid from 500 to 10,000 to attend
confrences doesn't really drive the idea that one should pay and
attend. And more you pay better the confrence. no guarantee. Just
one example quality academicians including Nome Chomsky and
Michael Sandle have refused to write for Journals which charge
readers exorbitant amount. Knowledge Dissimination on Internet
for free is picking momentum and being in one of the poorest
countries, we should support such movements. Cambridge and Oxford
Universities have already started circulating their lectures for
free
on Youtube.
And HereI should inform you sir. In Jawaharlal Nehru University
Which is buzz with talks and seminars, No student ever pays for
attending any confrence and outsiders are equally invited. State
is bound to release financial outlay to be invested for
confrences/seminars/conventions.
I will be a faculty in one or the other universities for sure.
But state will take care of my needs but economically modest
Students will not be burdened to pay.
And Harish Sir Sorry to read from you block quote We must rise
above the begging bowl mindset block quote end Please you being
the moderator of a reputed mailing list such written expression
is unwarranted.
Who beggs is very subjective notion, those who demand rights from
the state? or those who find money from corporates which covertly
drive where it is to be invested.
On 2/18/14, Kotian, H P <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Avinash
I really need to respond to you.
1 When a fee is set, it is clear it is not free lunch and you
need to pay.
Sneeking in clandestinely is not acceptable.
2 On the request of members we cut the registration by 50% to all.
Thereafter no one complained about the cost.
3 We kept the window open for those who could not afford this
amount as well.
Regarding your arguement,
" nobody charges penny for atending any confrences. It is
against the ethics of knowledge disssimination."
I am apauled to see the word "ethics" being used in this context.
With
respect to the remaining words "knowledge discimination" so all
those who provide knowledge including centres of knowledge
should do so free and the teachers should not charge anything
for this.
I would look forward for you to do so in the comming days.
Coming to the point.
1 We must rise above the begging bowl mindset.
2 We must pay for services for which you are expected to pay.
3 Until and unless there is a revenue model, we can't expect any
service of quality to come to us.
Besides this there were other issues I would like to highlight.
1 There were about 140 who registered online. Some sent advanced
information, they were unable to come. However, there was a good
number who did not bother to inform. Food and other logistic
arrangements were made for them. This has all got waste. There
is a cost to all that and more importantly an moral obligation
to inform before hand.There were others who showed only on the
first day and again they did not inform they were not comming
the second day.
2 Delegates were chit chatting causing disturvance and
disrespect to the speakers. It was very upsetting when the
speaker had to bluntly demand silence. Friends, do we deserve
such reprimand?
The bottom line of all this is our insensitivity and lack of our
sense of being responsible citizen.
If we don't correct ourselves, we will have to pay a huge price
for this.
Already we have an adverse mindset and this will only go to
strengthen them.
This is not a finger pointing exercise it is for us to reflect
and to correct our course.
Harish Kotian.
-----Original Message-----
From: AccessIndia
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Vikas Kapoor
Sent: 17 February 2014 23:13
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and
issuesconcerning the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] AccessIndia convention
On the contrary, I've attended several conferences which charge
Rs.500
to
Rs.1000 as registration fee. Everything doesn't work on
sponsorship.
I
don't
think that this list did anything wrong to make it a huge success!
Whether
somebody has the ability to pay for it or not is entirely a
different matter altogether.
----- Original Message -----
From: "avinash shahi" <[email protected]>
To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
concerningthe disabled." <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] AccessIndia convention
I've attended countless confrences and seminars of utmost repute
but nobody charges penny for atending any confrences. It is
against the ethics of knowledge disssimination.
But what you wrote
Block quote
I had also put in the list, we had an offer from our delagate,
that he would sponsor the registration cost in case someone was
so inclined but did not have the funds for it. No one approached
for this offer.
Then, why this indulgence?
block quote end
Please understand nobody wants someone should sponser somebody's
attendance in any paid convention anywhere in the world. I heard
many reputed intellectuals and individuals attended talks and
exhibitions but didn't touch food in fact tea.
So such allegation is unwarranted. Please if we really wish to
dissiminate knowledge and quality information to those who truly
cherish such conventions , let us rise much ahead from such
restrictive restrictions.
If we can find sponsers for minny events there is not difficulty
in arranging money for those who wish to excell in life despite
undescribable miseries. But such arrangements have to be made
without letting people know who did such wonders.
arranging money is not a big deal at all we are capable to find
contributers from all hues.
I just responded because didn't find this allegation acceptable
publicklly for those who don't have mere money.
Regards
On 2/17/14, Kotian, H P <[email protected]> wrote:
All
This time the mail is not regarding convention update <smile>.
Back home after this event.
Glad all the speakers graced their sessions and it was heart
warming to see the delegates participating enthusiastically in
and out of the audotorium.
I
guess the purpose of this convention got largely achieved.
I must thank George and the score foundation who took
meticulous care to make the stay comfortable and to put the
logistics in place. I do express my satisfaction with the
presentation and the rich hue of topics which got touched in
these two days.
I saw a lot of bonding and strengthen friendships in these last
2 days.
This
is really my yardstick to look at the convention.
What made me very upset that, I was told, some persons had not
paid up for the convention and sneaked in to the various
events. This is not right at all. I take it on myself, that, we
haven't been able to raise above such trifle slips. Such folks
are a blot to the community. What they don't realise that,
these things also come into notice and gives reason to think
ill about us. Each one of us are ambassadors in their own rights.
I had also put in the list, we had an offer from our delagate,
that he would sponsor the registration cost in case someone was
so inclined but did not have the funds for it. No one
approached for this offer. Then, why this indulgence?
Well, friends thanks for all those who put small and big
efforts and all the delegates who came along from many states
of the country.It was nice to be with each one of you.
Warmly
Harish Kotian.
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Centre for The Study of Law and Governance Jawaharlal Nehru
University New Delhi India
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makes calls asking for personal information like your bank
account details, passwords, etc. It never keeps or offers funds
to anyone. Please do not respond in any manner to such offers,
however official or attractive they may look.
Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are
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--
--- --- ---
"The waves breaking on the surface draw all the attention, But it is
the current beneath the water that determines your direction..."
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--
Avinash Shahi
M.Phil Research Scholar
Centre for The Study of Law and Governance Jawaharlal Nehru University
New Delhi India
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