What is confusing is having a numerical value as part of the draft title. Currently: draft-ietf-acme-dns-account-01-01 which is only going to be worse as the draft moves through version numbers. My suggestion would be to name it without the use of a numerical value. This gets rid of both problems. The only question is what to actually call it.
Deb Cooley (no hats) [email protected] On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 8:38 AM Sean Dilda <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't spend a lot of time on the Let's Encrypt forums, but I do maintain > an internal ACME server and work with the IT staff that manage certs/acme > client installs. Most of my users are only vaguely aware that their ACME > client creates an account as part of the process. Given that, I suspect > they would find the name 'DNS-ACCOUNT-01' confusing as it wouldn't be clear > to them which account is being referred to. They would likely assume it > would be the account on their DNS provider. I think 'DNS-02' as a newer > version of the DNS challenge type would be less confusing. > ------------------------------ > *From:* Acme <[email protected]> on behalf of Amir Omidi <aaomidi= > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2023 5:03 PM > *To:* Seo Suchan <[email protected]> > *Cc:* [email protected] <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [Acme] DNS-ACCOUNT-01 Updates > > I think what decision happens here will probably end up setting the > precedent on either these digits are "version numbers" of the "base > challenge types" (Not sure what to call them), and they act as a > replacement of them. Or that they are another flavor of the > technologies/protocols used in those challenges. I do not have strong > opinions here either way. > > Another factor to consider is how would support/Q&A forums feel about the > name choice of DNS-ACCOUNT-01 vs DNS-02. For example, if there is anyone > here who's keeping an eye on the Let's Encrypt's community forum do you > think DNS-02 would make things easier or harder for users adopting ACME > based certificate issuance and the folks helping them out? If harder, do > you think DNS-ACCOUNT-01 would be a better option here? > > On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 5:24 AM Seo Suchan <[email protected]> wrote: > > I kinda think TLS-SNI-02 was made as version 2 of TLS-SNI-01, but it > doesn't matter as they are no longer a thing > 2023-05-13 오전 3:43에 Q Misell 이(가) 쓴 글: > > > I'm also in favour of calling it DNS-02. I highly doubt there will be many > (if any) versions of challenges beyond version 1. It makes more sense to me > to read DNS-02 and DNS challenge type 2, not a upgraded edition of version > 1. > ------------------------------ > > Any statements contained in this email are personal to the author and are > not necessarily the statements of the company unless specifically stated. > AS207960 Cyfyngedig, having a registered office at 13 Pen-y-lan Terrace, > Caerdydd, Cymru, CF23 9EU, trading as Glauca Digital, is a company > registered in Wales under № 12417574 > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12417574__;!!OToaGQ!r1rAJU8Y16wsZhu9vZIYkTsR0gQG3x5k5iniyAWsEcG3EL1ott1SAH_t6KkJBohTGUxArlzOHToU5usEHb4eLMzA2bpN$>. > ICO register №: ZA782876 > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ico.org.uk/ESDWebPages/Entry/ZA782876__;!!OToaGQ!r1rAJU8Y16wsZhu9vZIYkTsR0gQG3x5k5iniyAWsEcG3EL1ott1SAH_t6KkJBohTGUxArlzOHToU5usEHb4eLKSmK3R2$>. > UK VAT №: GB378323867. EU VAT №: EU372013983. Turkish VAT №: 0861333524. > South Korean VAT №: 522-80-03080. Glauca Digital and the Glauca logo are > registered trademarks in the UK, under № UK00003718474 and № UK00003718468, > respectively. > > > On Fri, 12 May 2023 at 17:58, Aaron Gable <aaron= > [email protected]> wrote: > > For what it's worth, I'm in favor of calling it DNS-02. Despite your > totally correct descriptions of the disadvantages of this new method, I > *do* still view it as a generally-improved version of DNS-01. It's > obviously backwards-incompatible, hence the new major version number, but > it is generally an improvement that creates more flexibility for clients at > little cost. I also find the name "DNS-ACCOUNT-01" to be slightly > unfortunate, as no "dns accounts" are involved -- it makes sense once you > understand the method, but the name gives little to no hint to how the > method works on its own. > > Aaron > > On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 4:52 PM Antonios Chariton <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I’m sending this e-mail to the list to update you all on DNS-ACCOUNT-01 > and the news we have since the presentation in IETF 116. > > You can all help by reviewing the text[0], these updates, and sharing your > opinion in this thread here! > > The CA/B Forum 2023-05-04 meeting discussed DNS-ACCOUNT-01 and three > things came out of it, as it is evident in the minutes[1]: > > 1) This method is compatible with the CA/B Forum Baseline Requirements > that are binding for all WebPKI CAs, specifically section 3.2.2.4.7 for > agreed-upon change to a DNS record. This means that CAs can start using > this standard immediately, and there are no other dependencies. The design > seemed to be good in its current version. Obviously, quick changes to their > CP/CPS may be required, but this is not blocking and unilateral. > > 2) There is a documented need for various usecases where this challenge > would help, from several stakeholders, and evidence that it could be > beneficial to the ecosystem and its development. It allows ACME to be used > in even more situations where more traditional and non-automatable methods > had to be relied upon. > > 3) There was a suggestion to rename this challenge to DNS-02. This is > something that we had rejected back when we created this challenge, however > it has been suggested several times, so we are happy to reconsider this. It > may be the right choice. > > There’s no published precedence of what -02 means right now, so it’s > unclear whether it is a second option, or a next generation / improved > challenge. We never planned to replace DNS-01 with our challenge, we always > intended to add more options, and cover more use cases. Here are some > technical “disadvantages” of this work vs DNS-01: > > 1) ACME Clients need to calculate the correct label. Although we provide > the algorithm, a bash script, and test vectors, anecdotal data from ISRG > suggest that some clients still mess things up (implementing RFC 8555), so > this is another value where this may happen. An easy solution here would be > to share the expected label with the client, but we decided against this to > protect against cross-protocol attacks, and also to protect the client > against an ACME server giving it arbitrary DNS records to change. If > clients calculate this independently, they don’t need to trust the server. > > 2) The label is longer, so some very very long domain names may no longer > work. Since this is 17 characters longer than DNS-01’s label, anything > approaching the various limits (of DNS, etc.) may break. For example, if in > DNS-01 you end up with a 236-253 character domain name to check for the TXT > record, then DNS-ACCOUNT-01 will go over the limit and won’t work. We don’t > consider this to be a major problem. We’re also not aware of many domain > names in the 236-253 character range. > > 3) If an ACME client for whatever reason loses access to the ACME account, > this “set and forget” DNS label now has to change. Things would break here > with other standards too (if you need an EAB token, you can’t create a new > account anyways, if you limit the ACME account via CAA records, you can’t > issue, etc.) but DNS-ACCOUNT-01 would just add to the things that would > have to be taken into account. We don’t currently consider this a huge > issue, but if you think it could be, let us know. > > As you can see, these 3 tradeoffs above had to be made, to ensure we can > cover more use cases. We think these are good tradeoffs for an additional > ACME challenge, but perhaps they are not for an “upgraded” one. > > What do you think about the naming? Do you perceive “DNS-02” as an > improved version, or as a second option? We are happy to rename this to > DNS-02 and we have no plans of breaking any ACME server or client already > using DNS-01 :) > > Thanks for reading through this, and I am happy to hear your thoughts and > get reviews on the draft, so we can move further with this work. > > Antonios Chariton > Independent Contributor ;) > > - - - > Links: > > [0] : > https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/validation/2023-May/001892.html > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://archive.cabforum.org/pipermail/validation/2023-May/001892.html__;!!OToaGQ!r1rAJU8Y16wsZhu9vZIYkTsR0gQG3x5k5iniyAWsEcG3EL1ott1SAH_t6KkJBohTGUxArlzOHToU5usEHb4eLJ-dXGZ7$> > [1] : https://daknob.github.io/draft-todo-chariton-dns-account-01/ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://daknob.github.io/draft-todo-chariton-dns-account-01/__;!!OToaGQ!r1rAJU8Y16wsZhu9vZIYkTsR0gQG3x5k5iniyAWsEcG3EL1ott1SAH_t6KkJBohTGUxArlzOHToU5usEHb4eLAIe3NHy$> > > _______________________________________________ > Acme mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/acme > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/acme__;!!OToaGQ!r1rAJU8Y16wsZhu9vZIYkTsR0gQG3x5k5iniyAWsEcG3EL1ott1SAH_t6KkJBohTGUxArlzOHToU5usEHb4eLIdl8lBK$> > > _______________________________________________ > Acme mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/acme > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/acme__;!!OToaGQ!r1rAJU8Y16wsZhu9vZIYkTsR0gQG3x5k5iniyAWsEcG3EL1ott1SAH_t6KkJBohTGUxArlzOHToU5usEHb4eLIdl8lBK$> > > > _______________________________________________ > Acme mailing [email protected]https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/acme > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/acme__;!!OToaGQ!r1rAJU8Y16wsZhu9vZIYkTsR0gQG3x5k5iniyAWsEcG3EL1ott1SAH_t6KkJBohTGUxArlzOHToU5usEHb4eLIdl8lBK$> > > _______________________________________________ > Acme mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/acme > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/acme__;!!OToaGQ!r1rAJU8Y16wsZhu9vZIYkTsR0gQG3x5k5iniyAWsEcG3EL1ott1SAH_t6KkJBohTGUxArlzOHToU5usEHb4eLIdl8lBK$> > > _______________________________________________ > Acme mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/acme >
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