Absolutely - I never said it was impossible, but the options to do so had
their downsides.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Roger D. Seielstad - MCSE
Sr. Systems Administrator
Inovis Inc.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick R. Sweeney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:56 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] downlevel client authentication
> 
> 
> SetPrfDc can be used to force the secure channel to certain 
> machines. It doesn't particularly make sense to run on client 
> machines, but it was useful in an NT 4.0 Master Domain 
> environment to keep the secure channels between resource 
> domain Dcs and master Domain DCs site-specific.  
> 
> Forcing local authentication is definitely much easier in AD, 
> but was not impossible in NT 4.0.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Roger Seielstad
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:28 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] downlevel client authentication
> 
> 
> You are correct on both counts.
> 
> Terminology-wise, I consider non-AD aware clients as 
> downlevel, whereas older OS's with the DSClient installed 
> really aren't downlevel anymore.
> 
> As far as DC order, it will try each of the returned DCs. 
> There still is no rhyme nor reason to the order in which they 
> are returned however, so there is little that can be done to 
> manage which DC authenticates. Frankly, that's one of my 
> favorite benefits of AD.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Roger D. Seielstad - MCSE
> Sr. Systems Administrator
> Inovis Inc.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rick Kingslan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:31 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] downlevel client authentication
> > 
> > 
> > Yes - in reality, it does.
> > 
> > However, I just want to point out the difference when downlevel 
> > clients have the DS Client applied.  It can now change passwords at 
> > ANY DC.  Not just the PDC-E.  So, does AD aware in your example 
> > include those with the DS Client?
> > 
> > And, Roger - correct me if I'm wrong, if the first DC in 
> the list of 
> > returned DCs does NOT answer (down, busy), it then moves to 
> the next 
> > one in the list.  Hence, the behavior that we saw in NT domains is 
> > still accurate - the PDC didn't do much authentication.  Unless, of 
> > course, if it was the only DC. ;-)
> > 
> > Rick Kingslan  MCSE, MCSA, MCT
> > Microsoft MVP - Active Directory
> > Associate Expert
> > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger 
> > Seielstad
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 6:49 AM
> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> > 
> > Well, you're all partially correct.
> > 
> > AD (whether mixed mode or not) appears the same as a "straight" NT4 
> > domain to all downlevel (i.e. non-AD aware clients). What 
> that means 
> > is that the PDC emulator is the only place passwords can be 
> changed by 
> > these clients. It also means that any DC can authenticate users.
> > 
> > The thing to keep in mind is how NT4 style domains actually 
> > authenticate. Assuming WINS is available, a client queries WINS for 
> > domain controllers who can service the domain to which the 
> client is 
> > trying to authenticate (looking for 1Ch records in WINS). 
> WINS returns 
> > up to 25 domain controllers
> > - in NO particular order - to the client. There is no
> > guarantee that the DCs returned will be local to the client.
> > 
> > Does that help at all?
> > 
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Roger D. Seielstad - MCSE
> > Sr. Systems Administrator
> > Inovis Inc.
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Baudino [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:23 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: [ActiveDir] downlevel client authentication
> > > 
> > > 
> > > All,
> > > 
> > > Please help me resolve a "discussion" with some strong opinions on
> > > both sides of the camp.  You see, our reading on the role
> > of the PDC
> > > Emulator in regard to a mixed-mode domain with downlevel clients 
> > > (we're not upgrading the NT4.0 client
> > > software) has left us with differing interpretations.
> > > 
> > > We agree and understand that the PDC Emulator is 
> contacted directlry
> 
> > > by the downlevel clients to change their passwords.  We also
> > > understand and agree that the PDC Emulator is the
> > source of
> > > SAM replication.
> > > 
> > > Our disagreement is in authentication.  Some folks are 
> reading it as
> 
> > > all downlevel client activity, including authentication, 
> is done at
> > > the PDC emulator.  Others read this as the downlevel client is 
> > > authenticated by the domain controller that responds 
> first (or the 
> > > last time the client was authenticated [we're also a bit 
> unclear on 
> > > that concept]).
> > > 
> > > To me, this is very clear (but I could be the cause of the
> > confusion).
> > > In a branch office environment running mixed mode we would have a 
> > > combination of Win2k and NT4.0 domain controllers in the field 
> > > offices.  The NT4.0 BDC's are not aware of the fact that they're 
> > > really part of an AD domain and nor would the clients.
> > Thus, if the
> > > client's don't know about AD, and the BDC doesn't know
> > about AD, how
> > > would the client know that it had to contact the PDC 
> emulator to be 
> > > authenticated?  It wouldn't.  Hence, downlevel client
> > authentication
> > > must occur at any domain controller (again, the one that responds 
> > > first [or the last one]).
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Please help clear this up and please include a link to something
> > > that helps clear this up.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mike Baudino
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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