~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : I will ask though: if Avenade might exist so that more complicated : systems can be implemented without Microsoft having to do the work : themselves, does that mean they're different than other partners? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, I suppose Microsoft doesn't own much, if anything, of the other partners. When Avanade was founded, Microsoft owned 50% of the company. I believe the split is about 20/80 now. I suppose one reason for Microsoft agreeing to setup Avanade would be to have a consulting firm that would have some ties back to the company, and focus/specialise on Microsoft technology, but without having to be in the consulting business itself. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : If so, why and how Ken? I have to admit I've met some really : bright folks from MCS, Avendade, Accenture, IBM, Compucom, : CSC, HP and so on. The individual was far more important to : the conversation than the company. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Absolutely. Don't disagree with you one bit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : My guess is that they aren't any different than other partners, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Maybe, maybe not. I'm not really a disinterested party, so I won't try to argue one way or the other. I haven't been working for Avanade long enough to know enough to argue the point either :-) Avanade does have some ties back to Microsoft - our solutions delivery practice developed (with PAG) the current .NET Enterprise Library that you can download. I'm sure all the large consulting companies have similar ties though. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : I'm curious now: were you just pointing out that : one was missed or that Avenade can do the complicated : systems that MCS doesn't have staff to handle? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm sure there isn't much that MCS can't handle. We'll probably have more people (eventually). I think we're up around the 3000 mark ATM. Cheers Ken : : -----Original Message----- : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe : Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:37 PM : To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : Oh wow, I never heard of them and they are the "leading global : technology integrator"... : : : : -----Original Message----- : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer : Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 8:54 PM : To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : : [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe : : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : : : I think as MS gets more and more complicated products : : deeper in the field (SMS, MIIS, MOM, Active Directory, : : ADFS, SUA, etc) they will have not much choice but to offer : : more and better consulting to get it all configured : : and running properly together. Not doing so means that : : people will set it up and often it will be set up poorly : : or outright wrong which makes MS look bad. : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : : Perhaps this one of the reasons Avanade [1] exists... : : Cheers : Ken : : [1] www.avanade.com : : -- : www.adOpenStatic.com/cs/blogs/ken/ : : : : : Services is a great way to make money if you do a good job. If you do : a : : poor : : job, it is a great way to piss customers off and lose money and people : due : : to issues and stress. : : : : : : : : -----Original Message----- : : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : : Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:08 PM : : To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : : : ProServices at Microsoft is all about radical turns. Trust me :) : : : : You're concept of partners having more/less in-depth experience than : : Microsoft is intriguing. I suppose that indicates that the Microsoft : : consultants have a corporate sanctioned line back to the development : team : : (as opposed to making those relationships as best they can). : Interesting : : concept; I hope you're right. : : : : : : SteveB absolutely has been consistent in saying that services (not : just : : MCS : : anymore) is there as a value add. They're a software company first : and : : foremost. One of the great things about working there as a : consultant, : : I'm : : sure. : : : : Getting partners to step up has more than the value of not having to : : maintain headcount if you think about it. It has benefits that reach : much : : deeper than that. (I'm just pointing out the obvious). : : : : "If they are ramping up it's because they see a rise in the need of : talent : : in MCS at present, and demand from customers for more flesh in the : game." : : Hmmm.... : : : : : : : : : : -----Original Message----- : : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kingslan, : Rick T. : : Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:36 PM : : To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : : : All (not just Al), : : : : Microsoft has never really intended to be a true player in the : Services : : market - unless they are taking a radical turn in the past few months. : : : : They see services as a necessary tool for customers who require : Microsoft : : to : : be involved in installs and the like. If it wasn't for some very : major : : players (Boeing, Ford, GE, etc... I suspect) Microsoft would not have : : provided consulting at all. : : : : Ballmer sees this end of the market as an 'at-best' break even game. : He : : would much prefer to see the Partners step up to the plate, but there : are : : a : : whole other set of problems with that, only a couple being depth of : : experience and real commitment to the Microsoft Corporate vision, : rather : : than their own interests. : : : : Funny how that works. : : : : If they are ramping up it's because they see a rise in the need of : talent : : in : : MCS at present, and demand from customers for more flesh in the game. : : : : joe, you might be talking to other folks than I am (I suspect that I : have : : more recent contact with what's going on in recruiting with MCS than : you : : do : : right now.... ;o) but I don't get the impression that it's quite in : the : : upper thousands, but there is a big push on to hire a bunch by fiscal : : year-end (June 30). : : : : -rtk : : : : > -----Original Message----- : : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : : > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:44 PM : : > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : : > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : > : : > I, more than many, would really appreciate Microsoft building up its : : > consulting ranks/headcount ;) : : > : : > Until then, I don't think they can be considered as a serious player : : > in the consulting arena. I think they will never (by virtue of : their : : > culture) be able to be a consulting organization that deals with end : : > to end consulting; they can't deal with hardware without really : making : : > other vendors/partners irate for example. Same goes for software : that : : > Microsoft doesn't make, networking equipment/OS, etc. : : > : : > Compuware? I suppose they could since they claim to deal with 90% : of : : > the fortunate 100. : : > : : > Question to ask is how they get on the top 5 list. Is it by : revenue? : : > Profits? Headcount? Did they make the list themselves? ?? : : > : : > : : > : : > : : > : : > : : > -----Original Message----- : : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe : : > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:44 PM : : > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : : > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All : : > : : > I keep hearing rumours that MS is really going to be kicking its : : > presence up in consulting and services by adding thousands (or tens : of : : > thousands) of analysts for it. : : > : : > Oh and I thought of another possible one though I don't know how big : : > they are anymore... Compuware. : : > : : > : : > : : > -----Original Message----- : : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : : > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:01 PM : : > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : : > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All : : > : : > Accenture? Compucom? CSC? 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