In response to the post by Stuart, Matthew Culver wrote:

" I agree with a lot of what is being said here and the way that he's talking 
about setting it up (with a location attribute) is how I'd do it too however 
based on the brief description I think I would have made the directory 
structures at this site more similar to allow for this. "

As Per Matthew Culver
Sr Network Engineer
Novell Inc.

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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Fuller, Stuart
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Synching NDS and AD


I won't argue with Mr. Culver about what Novell's fine Nsure Identity Manager 
(DirXML) product will or will not do, for obvious reasons... :-)

He is absolutely right that you can write any type of rules to do the various 
nasty one to many, many to one, and many to many joins when doing the 
synchronization.  What I meant by "relatively impossible" was really "tedious 
and painful".  

However, the other concept that I was trying to get at (and obviously failed to 
do) is that it is easier to write two "simple" synchronization rule sets when 
synchronizing the directories to a "metadirectory" (or using MIIS's terms - 
"the metaverse") then to use a more complex single direct synchronization rule 
set.

As for the State of Montana's AD / NDS OU structures....  Here is an example:

Medium size agency with geographic dispersion across all 56 counties in Montana 
and 700+ users (for sake of discussion call this "Agency A").  (For you people 
who actually work for a living translate "agency" to "division" or "subsidiary")

NDS:                                                Active Directory
agency OU                                            agency OU
            -Location A                                          -Users         
 
                -Users                                             -Workstations
                -Workstations                                        -GPO OU 1
                    -Win2000XP                                       -GPO OU 2
                    -NT                                               -Servers
            -Location B
                -Users
                -Workstations
            -Location C
                -Users
                -........
            -Location .....

Now for Agency A, if they create an user in AD and want to synchronize to NDS, 
what OU does the user get created in???  They will have to come up with some 
rule that looks at another attribute of the user object to decide where to 
place the user such as "City".  Okay, so you write an DirXML rule that says if 
user is created in Active Directory under "ou=User, ou=Agency A", create a new 
user in NDS, and place the user in "ou=users, ou= Location A, ou=Agency A" 
where Location = Location A if City = A.

Great that works for the Metadirectory case and for the direct synch case 
*until* your agency administrator decides to change OU structure on the AD side 
or on the NDS side.  Let's say the agency administrator is implementing some 
type of ZEN policy on the NDS side or otherwise goes crazy and splits up the 
Users OU underneath the Location OU.  In the direct sync case you have to 
rewrite the entire synchronization rule to determine which OU the user will get 
placed in. In the Metadirectory case, you don't have to touch the AD import 
rule because nothing changed. All you would have to do is to modify the NDS 
export rule to take into account the new logic for determining where to place 
the user.  

So... the points I was trying to make were:

1. Novell's NsureIdentity (rebranded DirXML) truly is an industrial strength 
Metadirectory and exceeds Jorge's criteria of "Not the size of an Identity 
Management tool like MIIS". 

2. If you have *fairly* large and disparate OU structures between AD and NDS, 
you are much better off in the long run building a true Metedirectory than 
trying to build a direct synchronization link.

3. If you have >2 directories, then a Metadirectory becomes way more attractive 
and is easier to manage, more efficient, and much easier to maintain the 
synchronization logic and something like Nsure Identity Manager or MIIS become 
very attractive products. 

4. I'm not saying "don't use Nsure (DirXML)".... what I am saying is realize 
what you are getting when you purchase Nsure.

_Stuart Fuller


P.S.  Hunter *does* know that there is something wrong with me.... :-p
-------------------------------------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Medeiros, Jose
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Synching NDS and AD


In response to Stuarts posting, 

" NIM is actually bigger than just eDir and AD Sync, and it's certainly more 
than just a simple sync with the ability to control the flow of metadata and 
modify data on the fly through XSLT XML, it also includes the idea of 
authorative sources at an attribute level - one of the most powerful and 
flexible metadirectory products on the market today and one which is reasonably 
mature/robust.

If you've setup your AD structure so differently to your eDirectory structure 
within the same company then there's either something wrong with one of the 
structures or there's something wrong with you - I have never ever seen a 
directory structure in AD that I can't apply rules through NIM to sync with 
eDirectory even in instances of poor design. " 

As Per Matthew Culver
Sr Network Engineer
Novell Inc.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Fuller, Stuart
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 12:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Synching NDS and AD


Nsure Identity Manager = "Metadirectory" for all disparate NDS (Edir) and AD 
directories.

We are/have been looking at this question, and yes you can do a simple synch 
between Novell and AD with this product.  *BUT* in our case the OU structures 
between to the two directories are so disparate that a direct sync is 
relatively impossible.  If we end up going with this solution, we will have to 
project both directories to a third directory that we will write the sync rules 
for.  This ends up being a Metadirectory.  

*If* your OU structure, account ID's, etc... are fairly or exactly the same, 
then you can do a direct sync and end up with something "...not the size of an 
Identity Management Tool like MIIS". If you want a full blown Metadirectory 
then Novell's Nsure Indentity management is in the same category of directory 
products as MIIS.

_Stuart Fuller


-------------------------------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Medeiros, Jose
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 3:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Synching NDS and AD


Hi Jorge, 

We run Netware NDS 6.5 along with AD 2003 and we have a fulltime Netware 
Consultant on staff assigned by Novell.  I spoke with him about  your request 
and what he would recommend and he gave me this link 
http://www.novell.com/products/nsureidentitymanager/ 

Regards, 

Jose Medeiros

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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jorge de Almeida 
Pinto
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 11:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ActiveDir] Synching NDS and AD


Hi, 
Does anyone know of a product that can acchieve the following: 
* Synching NDS and AD 
* 2-way synching 
* Automated synching 
* Possibility to assign a directory for the first sync 
* Synching of user accounts, groups and passwords (although I wonder if the 
latter is possible because different mechanisms are used for storing pwds)
* Not the size of an Identity Management tool like MIIS 
Could MS Services for Netware play a role in this? 
Cheers 
#JORGE# 
Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, 
Jorge de Almeida Pinto 
Infrastructure Consultant 
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