Why does NTBackup work for me and BE not, when they are at core the same product?
I wondered about that too.  Here are my thoughts.
First, NTBackup is a simpler product that doesn't get tangled up with the complexities of scheduling and a GUI.
But the real reason, I think, is that I've been doing NTBackups to disk, while BE was to tape.
I've always suspected that most, if not all of my difficulties with BE had to do with the drivers for the tape drives and autoloaders, and with the SCSI interface to other devices ('other' being anything beyond the normal HD and CD complement)
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Mulnick
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--

Well put Albert.  Thanks for that feedback. 

What still has me curious is why BE wouldn't work in your environment and why ntbackup does (partially at least).  ntbackup as written by the same exact people and has a lot of the same code (it's licensed by Microsoft from Seagate last I checked). Ntbackup is the less featured version designed for single host backups and extended to act like it does more.

So that said, I agree that the goal is that your client's data is backed up.  I have to say that I disagree that jury-rigs, mickey mouse and by the seat of your pants is the long term solution though.  That's an infrastructure component that will come back to haunt at some point down the road.  As an interim fix, of course it can work.  I'm not blinded by the big vendors to the point that I think they have the only solution.  Far from it.  But I like to think that I can at least share some perspective and experience related to where it leads and I definitely favor technology over layer8 processes. Why?  Because layer8 changes and grows out of current positions and foundational solutions should not have to be decimated when that happens.  I've seen that way too often to care to see it continue where possible.

Basically, I hate to see a foundational solution such as backup, rely on such complexity and human intervention.  I completely understand that you have to do what you have to do. When you wrote it in your original email, it sounded like you approved of that method.  Reading this last one, I can you don't.  I was just trying to point out where that leads and trying to understand how you go there.  I bet I would have gotten there the same way you did ;)

Best of luck getting that worked out.
If you need anything from me, please don't hesitate.  I have been known to make some backup solutions work :)  Feel free to ping off-line if I can be of any help.

On 10/31/06, Albert Duro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Al, since you ask, no I don't see it differently, at least not at the oratorical level.  But where the rubber meets the road, things can look very different. Like the military say, the best laid plan falls apart the moment it meets the enemy.  You assume that I monkey around with Ntbackup and balky media for economic reasons.  In fact, we spared no expense (relative to our small size) to put in industrial-strength backup systems, both software and hardware.  Even paid consultants to set it up and manage it.
It blew up in our faces.  Primarily because Backup Exec just wouldn't work right in our environment.  (I'm not saying that BE isn't a fine product, it would just never work for us).  Why not?  Don't know -- I couldn't figure it out.  Our consultants couldn't figure it out.  Veritas support couldn't either, nor the autoloader manufacturer.  For more than two years, nobody could figure it out, until I decided to stop throwing good money after bad.
Did I try alternative products?  In the same class, yes -- more tales of woe, but different reasons.  We did not nor are we going to buy the high-end systems, which cost more than our whole network is worth.
So I was left with NTBackup, and admittedly a little more gun-shyness about brand-name backup products than is strictly rational.   That's what I have to work with, and I try to make the best of it.  That's the 'real world' in my little corner of it.
Believe me, when you and joe and others on this list urge us to 'make the best', I listen, I learn, and I applaud.  And it does push me in that direction.  But the only path there goes through 'make the best of what you've got'.  It's bumpy and often barricaded.
But after all is said and done, the REAL point is that I am preserving my clients' data and keeping them happy.  Jury-rigs, mickey mouse, and by-the-pants not withstanding.

-- Original Message -----
From: Al Mulnick
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:30 AM
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--

sub-optimal media are part of the real world?
Wow, thanks :)
Truth be told, that's a rant of mine.  I've heard a lot (lately especially) about how we want to do things cheap and inexpensive and we'll fix it later and so on. I've also spent a great deal of time cleaning up that kind of stuff.  Unfortunately, once it escapes into the "real world" then it becomes more difficult to clean up because you have to do so in front of customers/clients.
Interesting approach though. Usually a less disciplined from what I've seen and often results in more expense related to downtime and troubleshooting and lack of service.  I'm interested if you see differently though.
This area of the business fascinates me....

On 10/28/06, Albert Duro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm sure you and Susan are right.  All I'm saying is that it *can* happen, and for me, why take the chance when one-job/one-task  is easy to do.
Good point about the media, and that may explain my case, but, hey, sub-optimal media situations are part of the real world.
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Mulnick
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--

I've not had that same experience.  Granted, it's a limited feature utility (note the use of the word utility vs. tool as requested) but it's still capable of doing more.  There were some fixes to ntbackup in service packs and such.  You might want to verify you're using the latest version of that's what you see.
Also, check the media it's headed to.  It's error handling is not very elegant, but I've found it to be useful and strong enough to stand up to some complex tasks in the past. I've got several running now via cli that have been in place for more than half a year without issue (I know, I know, spend all that money on an enterprise backup system only to backup some machines locally.  But there are times when it makes more sense, trust me.)

On 10/27/06, Albert Duro <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
I've found, with NTbackup, that if you cram two or more tasks into a backup job, it's very likely to fail. For example, if you do a System State and a file backup and an Exchange backup in the same job.  It's best to separate each task into its own job, and sort it out in the scheduling.
A mixed job will also work for a while and then fail, which sounds like what happened to OP.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--

Do you have multiple information stores on this storage group?   (If using Exchange Enterprise edition)...the logs can't flush until all stores have a full backup, because the logs are shared...

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Technical Support
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:16 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org; ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--

I am running Normal Backup. Using NTBackup Utility. Backing up Information store.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Missy Koslosky
Sent: Thu 10/26/2006 12:49 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--

Are you running full (AKA normal) backups every night? It seems not. Use NTBackup to backup to disk (obviously, you'll need a disk with over 120GB of available space) and then use whatever normal program you use to back that backup onto tape. This will keep you running until you sort out why your normal backup software isn't flushing the logs when the backup completes.
How are you currently running backups? What software is in use? Are you sure it's Exchange aware? Are you doing brick level backups or copy backups instead of a full backup? Neither will flush the logs.
I'd resolve this as quickly as possible, because if you are in a situation where you have to replay the logs, you're NOT going to be a happy camper.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Technical Support
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:09 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--

Hi All,
Kindly suggest, what i can do about my Exchange Log files?
I have about 120 GB Log files for past 4 months. I have a few doubts:-
Do i really need all those log files?
If yes, Then how is it possible to manage with this as i have a very limited space left.
Can i delete these log files?
Backup doesnt remove these log files?
i am really running out of space on my Exchange log storage drive.

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