Why does NTBackup work for me and BE not, when they are at
core the same product?
I wondered about that too. Here are my
First, NTBackup is a simpler product that doesn't get tangled
up with the complexities of scheduling and a GUI.
But the real reason, I think, is that I've been doing
NTBackups to disk, while BE was to tape.
I've always suspected that most, if not all of my difficulties
with BE had to do with the drivers for the tape drives and autoloaders, and with
the SCSI interface to other devices ('other' being anything beyond the normal HD
and CD complement)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:11
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log
files --Disk Full--
Well put Albert. Thanks for that feedback.
What still has me curious is why BE wouldn't work in your environment
and why ntbackup does (partially at least). ntbackup as written by the
same exact people and has a lot of the same code (it's licensed by Microsoft
from Seagate last I checked). Ntbackup is the less featured version designed
for single host backups and extended to act like it does more.
said, I agree that the goal is that your client's data is backed up. I
have to say that I disagree that jury-rigs, mickey mouse and by the seat of
your pants is the long term solution though. That's an infrastructure
component that will come back to haunt at some point down the road. As
an interim fix, of course it can work. I'm not blinded by the big
vendors to the point that I think they have the only solution. Far from
it. But I like to think that I can at least share some perspective and
experience related to where it leads and I definitely favor technology over
layer8 processes. Why? Because layer8 changes and grows out of current
positions and foundational solutions should not have to be decimated when that
happens. I've seen that way too often to care to see it continue where
Basically, I hate to see a foundational solution such as
backup, rely on such complexity and human intervention. I completely
understand that you have to do what you have to do. When you wrote it in your
original email, it sounded like you approved of that method. Reading
this last one, I can you don't. I was just trying to point out where
that leads and trying to understand how you go there. I bet I would have
gotten there the same way you did ;)
Best of luck getting that worked
If you need anything from me, please don't hesitate. I have
been known to make some backup solutions work :) Feel free to ping
off-line if I can be of any help.
On 10/31/06, Albert
Duro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Al, since you ask, no I don't see it differently, at least
not at the oratorical level. But where the rubber meets the road,
things can look very different. Like the military say, the best laid plan
falls apart the moment it meets the enemy. You assume that I monkey
around with Ntbackup and balky media for economic reasons. In fact, we
spared no expense (relative to our small size) to put in industrial-strength
backup systems, both software and hardware. Even paid consultants to
set it up and manage it.
It blew up in our faces. Primarily because Backup
Exec just wouldn't work right in our environment. (I'm not saying that
BE isn't a fine product, it would just never work for us). Why
not? Don't know -- I couldn't figure it out. Our consultants
couldn't figure it out. Veritas support couldn't either, nor the
autoloader manufacturer. For more than two years, nobody could figure
it out, until I decided to stop throwing good money after bad.
Did I try alternative products? In the same class,
yes -- more tales of woe, but different reasons. We did not nor are we
going to buy the high-end systems, which cost more than our whole network is
So I was left with NTBackup, and admittedly a
little more gun-shyness about brand-name backup products than is
strictly rational. That's what I have to work with, and I try to
make the best of it. That's the 'real world' in my little corner of
Believe me, when you and joe and others on this list urge
us to 'make the best', I listen, I learn, and I applaud. And it
does push me in that direction. But the only path there goes through
'make the best of what you've got'. It's bumpy and often
But after all is said and done, the REAL point is that I am
preserving my clients' data and keeping them happy. Jury-rigs, mickey
mouse, and by-the-pants not withstanding.
-- Original Message -----
Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:30 AM
Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--
sub-optimal media are part of the real world?
Wow, thanks :)
Truth be told, that's a rant of mine. I've heard a lot (lately
especially) about how we want to do things cheap and inexpensive and we'll
fix it later and so on. I've also spent a great deal of time cleaning up
that kind of stuff. Unfortunately, once it escapes into the "real
world" then it becomes more difficult to clean up because you have to do
so in front of customers/clients.
Interesting approach though. Usually a less disciplined from what
I've seen and often results in more expense related to downtime and
troubleshooting and lack of service. I'm interested if you see
This area of the business fascinates me....
On 10/28/06, Albert
Duro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm sure you and Susan are right. All I'm saying
is that it *can* happen, and for me, why take the chance when
one-job/one-task is easy to do.
Good point about the media, and that may explain my
case, but, hey, sub-optimal media situations are part of the real
Original Message -----
Saturday, October 28, 2006 6:33 AM
Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--
I've not had that same experience. Granted, it's a limited
feature utility (note the use of the word utility vs. tool as
requested) but it's still capable of doing more. There were some
fixes to ntbackup in service packs and such. You might want to
verify you're using the latest version of that's what you see.
Also, check the media it's headed to. It's error handling
is not very elegant, but I've found it to be useful and strong enough
to stand up to some complex tasks in the past. I've got several
running now via cli that have been in place for more than half a year
without issue (I know, I know, spend all that money on an enterprise
backup system only to backup some machines locally. But there
are times when it makes more sense, trust me.)
On 10/27/06, Albert Duro <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
I've found, with NTbackup, that if you cram two or
more tasks into a backup job, it's very likely to fail. For example,
if you do a System State and a file backup and an Exchange backup in
the same job. It's best to separate each task into its own
job, and sort it out in the scheduling.
A mixed job will also work for a while and then
fail, which sounds like what happened to OP.
Original Message -----
Thursday, October 26, 2006 2:21 PM
RE: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk Full--
Do you have multiple information stores on this storage
group? (If using Exchange Enterprise edition)...the
logs can't flush until all stores have a full backup, because the
logs are shared...
I am running Normal Backup.
Using NTBackup Utility. Backing up Information store.
Are you running full (AKA normal) backups every night? It
seems not. Use NTBackup to backup to disk (obviously, you'll need
a disk with over 120GB of available space) and then use whatever
normal program you use to back that backup onto tape. This will
keep you running until you sort out why your normal backup
software isn't flushing the logs when the backup completes.
How are you currently running backups? What software is in
use? Are you sure it's Exchange aware? Are you doing brick level
backups or copy backups instead of a full backup? Neither will
flush the logs.
I'd resolve this as quickly as possible, because if you are
in a situation where you have to replay the logs, you're NOT going
to be a happy camper.
Kindly suggest, what i can do about
my Exchange Log files?
I have about 120 GB Log files for
past 4 months. I have a few doubts:-
Do i really need all those log
If yes, Then how is it possible to
manage with this as i have a very limited space left.
Can i delete these log
Backup doesnt remove these log
i am really running out of space on
my Exchange log storage drive.