What's the boot order in the BIOS on those machines? Laura
> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Albert Duro > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:54 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies > > Ah, that brings up another interesting point. I use USB > external hard drives too, and I've found that some WinXP and > Server2003 machines will not boot if a USB hard drive is > attached--I have to remember to turn it off while booting. > Anyone else seen this? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:02 PM > Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies (was) Exchange > Log files --Disk > Full-- > > > > No tape drives here. If it has a USB connection we are in business. > > > > > > Albert Duro wrote: > >> Yes, BE does do disk backup. But I have some objections: > >> A. They don't make it easy, infact they make an unnecessarily > >> complicated production of it. > >> B. I started doing NTBackup to disk while (and because) > I was still > >> troubleshooting BE. When I gave up on BE and its > brethren, NTBackup > >> was a natural segway, and already in place and working. > >> C. I discovered one great advantage that > NTBackup-to-disk has over > >> any other backup system: with a bit of planning, it is > proof against > >> almost any combination of crash and burn. You have a > backup file on > >> two or more disks/machines. Things go bad, you can do > recovery from > >> any Windows machine; you can move or copy the backup > disks/files to > >> any machine. Try doing that with a sophisticated tape-based or > >> SAN-based system. Imagine having to replace the tape > >> drive/autoloader with the exact same type, while rebuilding a > >> same-hardware three-year old server to the exact same > configuration, > >> same SPs, same backup software, same drivers. I can > guarantee that > >> at least one of those necessary replacement elements will be > >> impossible to find, even under leisurely conditions. [1] > Yes, there > >> are strategies to deal with that, but if you could spend > that kind of > >> money, you would have gotten a double-redundant > bullet-proof system in the first place. > >> I truly hope that I'm wrong out of lack of knowledge and > pessimism. > >> I am open to being corrected and encouraged. > >> [1] Naturally, the tape drive drivers will be on the same > tape that > >> you can't access nohow. Download the drivers from the > OEM, you say? > >> Chances are excellent that the OEM has gone out of > business, or sold > >> out to a giant who prunes out what they don't like (and what you > >> need), or changed the name or version number on it out of sheer > >> orneryness. If you do get to what looks like the right drivers, > >> you're likely to find that the last minor upgrade version > that really > >> worked well for you has been dropped, or tweaked into your trouble > >> zone. I can testify to ALL these experiences. I think > others can too. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> *From:* Al Mulnick <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> *To:* [email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]> > >> *Sent:* Thursday, November 02, 2006 3:27 PM > >> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies (was) > Exchange Log > >> files --Disk Full-- > >> > >> Trying to remember exactly, but doesn't BE have an > option to use > >> disk vs. tape drives? > >> > >> You *could* run a test to help simplify and rule out > some of the > >> complexity. Could take a while, but might be worth it. > >> > >> Al > >> > >> On 11/2/06, *Albert Duro* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > >> > >> Why does NTBackup work for me and BE not, when they are at > >> core the same product? > >> I wondered about that too. Here are my thoughts. > >> First, NTBackup is a simpler product that doesn't > get tangled > >> up with the complexities of scheduling and a GUI. > >> But the real reason, I think, is that I've been doing > >> NTBackups to disk, while BE was to tape. > >> I've always suspected that most, if not all of my > difficulties > >> with BE had to do with the drivers for the tape drives and > >> autoloaders, and with the SCSI interface to other devices > >> ('other' being anything beyond the normal HD and CD > >> complement) > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> *From:* Al Mulnick <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> *To:* [email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]> > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:11 AM > >> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk > >> Full-- > >> > >> Well put Albert. Thanks for that feedback. > >> What still has me curious is why BE wouldn't > work in your > >> environment and why ntbackup does (partially > at least). > >> ntbackup as written by the same exact people and has a lot > >> of the same code (it's licensed by Microsoft > from Seagate > >> last I checked). Ntbackup is the less featured version > >> designed for single host backups and extended > to act like > >> it does more. > >> > >> So that said, I agree that the goal is that > your client's > >> data is backed up. I have to say that I disagree that > >> jury-rigs, mickey mouse and by the seat of > your pants is > >> the long term solution though. That's an > infrastructure > >> component that will come back to haunt at some > point down > >> the road. As an interim fix, of course it can > work. I'm > >> not blinded by the big vendors to the point > that I think > >> they have the only solution. Far from it. > But I like to > >> think that I can at least share some perspective and > >> experience related to where it leads and I definitely > >> favor technology over layer8 processes. Why? Because > >> layer8 changes and grows out of current positions and > >> foundational solutions should not have to be decimated > >> when that happens. I've seen that way too > often to care > >> to see it continue where possible. > >> > >> Basically, I hate to see a foundational > solution such as > >> backup, rely on such complexity and human > intervention. I > >> completely understand that you have to do what > you have to > >> do. When you wrote it in your original email, > it sounded > >> like you approved of that method. Reading > this last one, > >> I can you don't. I was just trying to point out where > >> that leads and trying to understand how you go > there. I > >> bet I would have gotten there the same way you did ;) > >> > >> Best of luck getting that worked out. > >> If you need anything from me, please don't hesitate. I > >> have been known to make some backup solutions work :) > >> Feel free to ping off-line if I can be of any help. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 10/31/06, *Albert Duro* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > >> > >> Al, since you ask, no I don't see it > differently, at > >> least not at the oratorical level. But where the > >> rubber meets the road, things can look > very different. > >> Like the military say, the best laid plan > falls apart > >> the moment it meets the enemy. You assume that I > >> monkey around with Ntbackup and balky media for > >> economic reasons. In fact, we spared no expense > >> (relative to our small size) to put in > >> industrial-strength backup systems, both > software and > >> hardware. Even paid consultants to set it up and > >> manage it. > >> It blew up in our faces. Primarily because Backup > >> Exec just wouldn't work right in our environment. > >> (I'm not saying that BE isn't a fine product, it would > >> just never work for us). Why not? Don't know -- I > >> couldn't figure it out. Our consultants couldn't > >> figure it out. Veritas support couldn't > either, nor > >> the autoloader manufacturer. For more > than two years, > >> nobody could figure it out, until I decided to stop > >> throwing good money after bad. > >> Did I try alternative products? In the same class, > >> yes -- more tales of woe, but different > reasons. We > >> did not nor are we going to buy the > high-end systems, > >> which cost more than our whole network is worth. > >> So I was left with NTBackup, and admittedly a > >> little more gun-shyness about brand-name backup > >> products than is strictly rational. That's what I > >> have to work with, and I try to make the > best of it. > >> That's the 'real world' in my little corner of it. > >> Believe me, when you and joe and others on > this list > >> urge us to 'make the best', I listen, I > learn, and I > >> applaud. And it does push me in that > direction. But > >> the only path there goes through 'make the best of > >> what you've got'. It's bumpy and often barricaded. > >> But after all is said and done, the REAL > point is that > >> I am preserving my clients' data and keeping them > >> happy. Jury-rigs, mickey mouse, and > by-the-pants not > >> withstanding. > >> > >> -- Original Message ----- > >> > >> *From:* Al Mulnick <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> *To:* [email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]> > >> *Sent:* Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:30 AM > >> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files > >> --Disk Full-- > >> > >> sub-optimal media are part of the real world? > >> Wow, thanks :) > >> Truth be told, that's a rant of mine. > I've heard > >> a lot (lately especially) about how we > want to do > >> things cheap and inexpensive and we'll fix it > >> later and so on. I've also spent a > great deal of > >> time cleaning up that kind of stuff. > >> Unfortunately, once it escapes into the "real > >> world" then it becomes more difficult > to clean up > >> because you have to do so in front of > >> customers/clients. > >> Interesting approach though. Usually a less > >> disciplined from what I've seen and > often results > >> in more expense related to downtime and > >> troubleshooting and lack of service. I'm > >> interested if you see differently though. > >> This area of the business fascinates me.... > >> > >> On 10/28/06, *Albert Duro* > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > >> > >> I'm sure you and Susan are right. All I'm > >> saying is that it *can* happen, and for me, > >> why take the chance when > one-job/one-task is > >> easy to do. > >> Good point about the media, and that may > >> explain my case, but, hey, > sub-optimal media > >> situations are part of the real world. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> *From:* Al Mulnick > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> *To:* [email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]> > >> *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, > 2006 6:33 AM > >> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log > >> files --Disk Full-- > >> > >> I've not had that same experience. > >> Granted, it's a limited feature utility > >> (note the use of the word > utility vs. tool > >> as requested) but it's still capable of > >> doing more. There were some fixes to > >> ntbackup in service packs and > such. You > >> might want to verify you're using the > >> latest version of that's what you see. > >> Also, check the media it's headed to. > >> It's error handling is not very elegant, > >> but I've found it to be useful > and strong > >> enough to stand up to some > complex tasks > >> in the past. I've got several > running now > >> via cli that have been in > place for more > >> than half a year without issue > (I know, I > >> know, spend all that money on an > >> enterprise backup system only to backup > >> some machines locally. But there are > >> times when it makes more > sense, trust me.) > >> -ajm > >> > >> > >> On 10/27/06, *Albert Duro* > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > >> > >> I've found, with NTbackup, > that if you > >> cram two or more tasks > into a backup > >> job, it's very likely to fail. For > >> example, if you do a > System State and > >> a file backup and an > Exchange backup > >> in the same job. It's best to > >> separate each task into > its own job, > >> and sort it out in the scheduling. > >> A mixed job will also work > for a while > >> and then fail, which > sounds like what > >> happened to OP. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> *From:* Wells, James Arthur > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> *To:* > [email protected] > >> > <mailto:[email protected]> > >> *Cc:* Technical Support > >> > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >> *Sent:* Thursday, > October 26, 2006 > >> 2:21 PM > >> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] > >> Exchange Log files > --Disk Full-- > >> > >> Do you have multiple > information > >> stores on this storage group? > >> (If using Exchange Enterprise > >> edition)...the logs can't flush > >> until all stores have a full > >> backup, because the logs are > >> shared... > >> --James > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > >> *From:* > >> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> [mailto: > >> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] > >> *On Behalf Of > *Technical Support > >> *Sent:* Thursday, > October 26, 2006 > >> 3:16 PM > >> *To:* > >> [email protected] > >> > >> <mailto:[email protected]>; > >> [email protected] > >> > <mailto:[email protected]> > >> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] > >> Exchange Log files > --Disk Full-- > >> > >> Hi, > >> I am running Normal > Backup. Using > >> NTBackup Utility. Backing up > >> Information store. > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > >> *From:* > >> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> on behalf of Missy Koslosky > >> *Sent:* Thu 10/26/2006 12:49 PM > >> *To:* > [email protected] > >> > <mailto:[email protected]> > >> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] > >> Exchange Log files > --Disk Full-- > >> > >> Are you running full > (AKA normal) > >> backups every night? > It seems not. > >> Use NTBackup to backup to disk > >> (obviously, you'll need a disk > >> with over 120GB of available > >> space) and then use whatever > >> normal program you use to back > >> that backup onto tape. > This will > >> keep you running until you sort > >> out why your normal backup > >> software isn't > flushing the logs > >> when the backup completes. > >> How are you currently running > >> backups? What software > is in use? > >> Are you sure it's > Exchange aware? > >> Are you doing brick > level backups > >> or copy backups > instead of a full > >> backup? Neither will > flush the logs. > >> I'd resolve this as quickly as > >> possible, because if > you are in a > >> situation where you > have to replay > >> the logs, you're NOT > going to be a > >> happy camper. > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > >> *From:* > >> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> [mailto: > >> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] > >> *On Behalf Of > *Technical Support > >> *Sent:* Thursday, > October 26, 2006 > >> 11:09 AM > >> *To:* > [email protected] > >> > <mailto:[email protected]> > >> *Subject:* [ActiveDir] Exchange > >> Log files --Disk Full-- > >> > >> Hi All, > >> Kindly suggest, what i can do > >> about my Exchange Log files? > >> I have about 120 GB > Log files for > >> past 4 months. I have > a few doubts:- > >> Do i really need all > those log > >> files? > >> If yes, Then how is it > possible to > >> manage with this as i > have a very > >> limited space left. > >> Can i delete these log files? > >> Backup doesnt remove > these log files? > >> i am really running > out of space > >> on my Exchange log > storage drive. > >> *Thanks!!!* > >> Ravi > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > > List archive: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > List archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
