Re: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:06:12 -0800

And SBS's version of "fill in the blank" always lags behind the big guys (we let you bleed first so we don't have to :-)

We're 64bit only or bust in the Longhorn era. That means for us to have a Longhorn GP'er... we're migratin' the Kitchen sink to run on faster hardware (the water will run that much faster... just think of it)

Akomolafe, Deji wrote:

I'm sure that you are aware that LH is still many years away from significant adoption. We will see several intervening years between LH release and its reaching the mainstream. In the meantime, Vista would have become the de-facto desktop OS in place of XP (yes, I can dream). So, between now, then and when-ever, people will be needlessly handicapped in their ADM/ADMX decision making. I foresee a lot of gnashing of the teeth, more gripping, beaucoup "evil M$" rants, and other heart-burn-inducing misunderstandings.

Nobody said it would be non-trivial. If it were, people like me will not need people like you.

Sincerely,
   _____
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Microsoft MVP - Directory Services
www.akomolafe.com - we know IT
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Do you now realize that Today is the Tomorrow you were worried about Yesterday? -anon

From: Darren Mar-Elia
Sent: Fri 12/15/2006 10:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

Come on Deji—its exactly the same, else why in the world do we upgrade perfectly good IT systems? J

Folks can manage their GP from DCs when Longhorn ships. Until then, its Vista. Also, it would fairly trivial, if not time-consuming, to convert all those ADMXs in Vista back to ADMs. There is nothing technically preventing that. But, it is not trivial to back-port the other new Vista functionality, like published printers, wired policy, the new IPSec and Firewall stuff, back to older versions. You wouldn’t need to back-port all of it—just enough to support GP Editing, but still, it’s a lot of work and MS, like most other software companies, probably needs to make the hard call about where to put dev and testing resources.

I agree that its not ideal, but I don’t think having to manage GP from Vista for the intervening space of time until Longhorn ships is a terrible thing. It will probably take most orgs that much time to decide when to go to Vista anyway. And for the aggressive ones, Vista is not a bad choice for a management platform. I think the benefits of the central store and other improvements outweigh the medium term inconvenience.

I am curious, however, what others think.

Darren

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Akomolafe, Deji
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

>>> People don't seem to have a problem with that concept when it comes to game consoles :)

Bad analogy. Go stand in the corner, no wii for you :)

When people start running their businesses on game consoles, then you can come back and compare. For now, it's just plain incomprehensible that you can't manage ADMX from anything but Vista. Yeah, ideally we would want to encourage clients to NOT manage things directly from servers, and to ensure that IF they are going to introduce Vista, the IT folks' machines should be doing the dog-fooding, but realistically, the "ideal" is always the exception in this field. Microsoft should know that. People will insist on managing GPO directly from the DCs, best practices be damned.

From: Darren Mar-Elia
Sent: Fri 12/15/2006 9:18 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

I hear you Rich. I had a long discussion with someone on the GP newsgroups

who thought that the fact that XP and 2003 couldn't read Vista GP settings

was an abomination and a scandal of the highest order and that MS should be

beaten for their insolence (I'm paraphrasing :-)). But, yes, we should all

be used to the fact that sometimes, you have to adopt the new stuff to get

the new toys. People don't seem to have a problem with that concept when it

comes to game consoles :)

Darren

-----Original Message-----

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Rich Milburn

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:04 AM

To: [email protected]

Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

Sorry, I understand it's different, what I meant was merely that we had

some growing pains like this when XP first came out.  Our practice then

became to use only XP desktops for GP management.  I think there's a

tendency to think this is such a terrible thing, this

backwards-incompatibility, and we might forget that Vista is not new

with this, we had similar issues before.  And who remembers the

teeth-pulling to get people to move to Active Directory??

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rich Milburn

MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services

Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development

Applebee's International, Inc.

4551 W. 107th St

Overland Park, KS 66207

913-967-2819

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" - anonymous

-----Original Message-----

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:05 AM

To: [email protected]

Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

This is actually a little different because if you view a GPO that was

created with Vista, using XP or 2003, none of the ADMX settings can

actually

be read at all, because they are a completely new format that GPEditor

or

GPMC on those older platforms don't understand. In fact, those XP or

will happily copy up the ADMs into the Vista GPO like they used to do,

and

you're back to each GPO storing ADMs in SYSVOL. What I've been

recommending

to folks is that once you introduce Vista desktops into your

environment,

use Vista for all your ongoing GP management. The Vista ADMXs are a

superset

of the latest and greatest ADMs (i.e. they include 2003, XP and Vista

settings) so you can happily manage Vista and non-Vista targeted GP

settings

from a Vista machine.

Darren

Darren Mar-Elia

CTO & Founder

www.sdmsoftware.com

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Rich Milburn

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 6:49 AM

To: [email protected]

Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

You may recall, there was a similar case when XP came out too - if

memory serves, you had to manage XP GPO settings from an XP box - if you

opened them on Win2K, there were problems (I can't recall now exactly

what those problems were... it would corrupt the policy? Lose the

settings?) anyway so there are tons more settings (+ side) and you have

to use Vista for now (- side, sorta).  I wouldn't be too surprised if

they fix that with the next server and XP SP... but I haven't actually

heard that.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rich Milburn

MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services

Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development

Applebee's International, Inc.

4551 W. 107th St

Overland Park, KS 66207

913-967-2819

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" - anonymous

-----Original Message-----

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia

Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:13 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

Vista introduces a new Admin Template format called ADMX. These are

found on Vista in C:\windows\policydefinitions and, unfortuately cannot

be consumed by earlier versions of Windows. That is you must manage

Vista GP from Vista.

Darren

-----Original Message-----

From: "Za Vue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: [email protected]

Sent: 12/14/2006 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

Sorry. Exactly what Ben wrote.

Thanks..

-Z.V.

WATSON, BEN wrote:

> Maybe he may be referring to the location of any possible new ADM

files

> included with Vista.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darren

Mar-Elia

> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:34 AM

> To: [email protected]

> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

> What do you mean Za? I'm not familiar with any GPO plug-in for Win2K3,

> unless you mean the LDIF files that are in sources\adprep on the Vista

> CD?

> -----Original Message-----

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Za Vue

> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:57 AM

> To: [email protected]

> Subject: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

> Anyone know what and where the GPO plugin for Win2003 on the Vista DVD

> is called and located?

> -Z.V.

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Re: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO

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