Re: [Adastra] Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 11

Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:40:39 -0700

Sarah...how do you know there is no 'vandalism' in the forbidden countryside if you meekly do not go there?? (and, by the way, both Scotland and Scandinavia have a freedom to roam, which is accepted with a broad measure of consensus and lack of controversy).
I can tell you categorically that there is much more 'vandalism' on private, forbidden countryside than on public land...kids, dogs, litter, and travellers notwithstanding... 


Myself and friends are just in the middle of a long term survey of middle 
Sussex for old unimproved meadows and pastures and I can tell you that it is 
a hard task finding them, so comprehensively have private landowners 
destroyed them...and when we do find em the majority are damaged or at risk 
from bad or inappropriate management and sheer neglect...for "what the eye 
doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve over."



How can we ever make the alliances and build the broad public support for 
the conservation of nature if we keep reinforcing the message that the 
(landless) public...all the 90% of us in built-up areas...are the enemies, 
not the market, private property, and production for profit ?



It is only us urban oiks who have the collective potential to stop the 
destruction of nature...not the Daily Telegraph reading rural good-lifers 
who both privately enjoy nature (cos they have the money to own their bit of 
it) and destroy it (by their support and ownership of rampant private 
capital).



"The earth is a common treasury" (as was said by a wonderful guy of the name 
of Gerard Winstanley 360 years ago)


Dave Bangs



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>

To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:55 AM
Subject: Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 11



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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9 (Patrick Roper)
  2. Re: Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9 (S J Patton)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 00:07:18 +0100
From: "Patrick Roper" <[email protected]>
To: "'Adastra discussion group'" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Adastra] Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Sarah.  How, as a member of the public, does one get to the places where 
the

public is not allowed?



Patrick



From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of S J Patton
Sent: 22 August 2012 22:00
To: Adastra discussion group
Subject: Re: [Adastra] Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9



I'm not sure that free-range public access goes particularly well with

conservation. At least in areas where the public are not allowed there is 
no

dog fouling, litter or vandalism.



Sarah



 _____

From: david bangs <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 August 2012, 21:55
Subject: Re: [Adastra] Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9



Lovely to hear of the increased no's of G Partridges, Corn Buntings et al 
on

the Norfolk estate near Burpham...but the conservation objectives for the
Partridge coincide with the 'sporting' objective of slaughtering them when
their numbers get up enuf to 'sustain' that...and the slaughtering of game

birds is incompatible with public enjoyment of the open countryside, cos 
the

gamekeepers / land police will see you off if you stray from statutory
access provision.

I am not aware that either the Angmering Park or the Arundel Castle estate
have dedicated a single acre of statutory access land on their

properties...and the only access we legally have is the access by 
statutory

rights of way and statutory access land...which WE the landless public

fought for...against the opposition of most big landowners...especially 
the

bird slaughtering ones...

Do tell me if I'm wrong.

We have no statutory open access to the lovely-but-damaged New Down chalk

grassland, or half the Barpham Hill chalk grasslands, and the walks over 
the
bleak arable prairies of the Angmering Park estate are as depressing as 
they

are exhilarating...with massed pheasants running around like gormless
chickens awaiting their slaughterage...and the other chalk grassland sites
(like Harrow Hill's wretched paddocked and disappearing west slope chalk

grassland) are merely under-managed/badly managed 'precious fragments' of 
a

destroyed landscape.


On the Arundel Castle estate we are still banned from access to the Park 
via
the traditional and popular Whiteways entrance cos of the needs of game 
bird

management in the northern park...so we miss easily seeing the Hellebores

and orchids and other wildlife which used to be so easily accessible 
(wot's

left of it).


The estate has just bought out the Forestry Commission lease on The 
Rewell,

and the visitor welcoming notices of the Forestry Commission have been

replaced by the Euroforestry notices which make no mention of public 
access

rights.


The Norfolk Estate say they will carry on managing The Rewell as the FC 
did

(and the FC had an important project for conserving Fritillaries...which
resulted in their re-introduction at Abbots Wood, folk will know).

I wouldn't put a penny on that...and my best guess is that there will be a
slow squeeze on open public access, less attention and focus on targetted
nature conservation management, and more emphasis on game bird management.

Again, tell me if I'm wrong.


If the FC had bought out the Arundel Estate Rewell freehold (rather than 
the

reverse) then the FC would dedicate the whole of The Rewell as statutory
access land...

Now that WOULD be something worth celebrating...

Dave Bangs


----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:00 PM
Subject: Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9



Send Adastra mailing list submissions to
[email protected]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.sxbrc.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/adastra_lists.sxbrc.org.uk
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[email protected]

You can reach the person managing the list at
[email protected]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Adastra digest..."


Today's Topics:

 1. Online Entomology Course (S J Patton)
 2. Sussex wildlife-friendly farmer needs your vote! (Thomas, Adrian)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:17:34 +0100 (BST)
From: S J Patton <[email protected]>
To: Adastra <[email protected]>
Subject: [Adastra] Online Entomology Course
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi


Does anyone know what happened with the online entomology course which 
was

being trialled?


Thanks,
Sarah
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:27:46 +0100
From: "Thomas, Adrian" <[email protected]>
To: "Adastra discussion group" <[email protected]>
Subject: [Adastra] Sussex wildlife-friendly farmer needs your vote!
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hi Adastrans



Have you been to see the masses of Grey Partridges and Corn Buntings and
other farmland wildlife flourishing on the Norfolk Estate near Burpham
in West Sussex? Did you go and see the Rough-legged Buzzards or Pallid
Harrier there?



Well, Peter Knight who runs the farm, and has been so welcoming to
nature and naturalists, is one of the four finalists in this year's RSPB
Telegraph Nature of Farming Award, the UK's largest farm wildlife
competition.  The Award celebrates the great work that many farmers do
to care for our countryside.



I'd love it if you could take a couple of minutes to ensure we get a
Sussex farmer crowned as worthy champion. To cast your vote, go to
www.rspb.org.uk/farmvote. The vote closes on 5 September.



If you could get your friends and family to vote too, that'd be great.



Thanks guys.



Adrian
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 07:59:10 +0100 (BST)
From: S J Patton <[email protected]>
To: Adastra discussion group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Adastra] Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Patrick,


Not entirely sure where you are coming from. Are you asking how I know 
that areas without the public are so nice?!!!!?



Alternatively. if you are playing devil's thingy, let me turn the question 
on it's head and ask WHY the public should have access to private land? Be 
that areas of the Arundel Estate, MoD land, or even my back garden!?
Just a quick example. When Pagham Harbour was closed off during the F&M 
outbreak, numbers and variety of breeding birds increased dramatically. 
The fact is that the majority of 'the public' have little or no 
understanding of the countryside be that from the farming or conservation 
perspective. Many of the heathlands near me are Access Land - covered in 
dog sh1t and ground-nesting birds continually harrassed by dogs off the 
leads. Personally I am glad that there are places where the public are not 
allowed, even if that means I can't go there either.


BTW, good to talk again - it's been a long time!

Sarah


________________________________
From: Patrick Roper <[email protected]>
To: 'Adastra discussion group' <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2012, 0:07
Subject: Re: [Adastra] Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9



Sarah.? How, as a member of the public, does one get to the places where 
the public is not allowed?

?
Patrick
?

From:[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of S J Patton

Sent: 22 August 2012 22:00
To: Adastra discussion group
Subject: Re: [Adastra] Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9
?

I'm not sure that free-range public access goes particularly well with 
conservation. At least in areas where the public are not allowed there is 
no dog fouling, litter or vandalism.?

?
Sarah
?

________________________________

From:david bangs <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 August 2012, 21:55
Subject: Re: [Adastra] Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9


Lovely to hear of the increased no's of G Partridges, Corn Buntings et al 
on the Norfolk estate near Burpham...but the conservation objectives for 
the Partridge coincide with the 'sporting' objective of slaughtering them 
when their numbers get up enuf to 'sustain' that...and the slaughtering of 
game birds is incompatible with public enjoyment of the open countryside, 
cos the gamekeepers / land police will see you off if you stray from 
statutory access provision.



I am not aware that either the Angmering Park or the Arundel Castle estate 
have dedicated a single acre of statutory access land on their 
properties...and the only access we legally have is the access by 
statutory rights of way and statutory access land...which WE the landless 
public fought for...against the opposition of most big 
landowners...especially the bird slaughtering ones...


Do tell me if I'm wrong.


We have no statutory open access to the lovely-but-damaged New Down chalk 
grassland, or half the Barpham Hill chalk grasslands, and the walks over 
the bleak arable prairies of the Angmering Park estate are as depressing 
as they are exhilarating...with massed pheasants running around like 
gormless chickens awaiting their slaughterage...and the other chalk 
grassland sites (like Harrow Hill's wretched paddocked and disappearing 
west slope chalk grassland) are merely under-managed/badly managed 
'precious fragments' of a destroyed landscape.



On the Arundel Castle estate we are still banned from access to the Park 
via the traditional and popular Whiteways entrance cos of the needs of 
game bird management in the northern park...so we miss easily seeing the 
Hellebores and orchids and other wildlife which used to be so easily 
accessible (wot's left of it).



The estate has just bought out the Forestry Commission lease on The 
Rewell, and the visitor welcoming notices of the Forestry Commission have 
been replaced by the Euroforestry notices which make no mention of public 
access rights.



The Norfolk Estate say they will carry on managing The Rewell as the FC 
did (and the FC had an important project for conserving 
Fritillaries...which resulted in their re-introduction at Abbots Wood, 
folk will know).



I wouldn't put a penny on that...and my best guess is that there will be a 
slow squeeze on open public access, less attention and focus on targetted 
nature conservation management, and more emphasis on game bird management.


Again, tell me if I'm wrong.


If the FC had bought out the Arundel Estate Rewell freehold (rather than 
the reverse) then the FC would dedicate the whole of The Rewell as 
statutory access land...


Now that WOULD be something worth celebrating...

Dave Bangs


----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:00 PM
Subject: Adastra Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9



Send Adastra mailing list submissions to
[email protected]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.sxbrc.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/adastra_lists.sxbrc.org.uk
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[email protected]

You can reach the person managing the list at
[email protected]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Adastra digest..."


Today's Topics:

? 1. Online Entomology Course (S J Patton)
? 2. Sussex wildlife-friendly farmer needs your vote! (Thomas, Adrian)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:17:34 +0100 (BST)
From: S J Patton <[email protected]>
To: Adastra <[email protected]>
Subject: [Adastra] Online Entomology Course
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi


Does anyone know what happened with the online entomology course which 
was being trialled?


Thanks,
Sarah
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:27:46 +0100
From: "Thomas, Adrian" <[email protected]>
To: "Adastra discussion group" <[email protected]>
Subject: [Adastra] Sussex wildlife-friendly farmer needs your vote!
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hi Adastrans



Have you been to see the masses of Grey Partridges and Corn Buntings and
other farmland wildlife flourishing on the Norfolk Estate near Burpham
in West Sussex? Did you go and see the Rough-legged Buzzards or Pallid
Harrier there?



Well, Peter Knight who runs the farm, and has been so welcoming to
nature and naturalists, is one of the four finalists in this year's RSPB
Telegraph Nature of Farming Award, the UK's largest farm wildlife
competition.? The Award celebrates the great work that many farmers do
to care for our countryside.



I'd love it if you could take a couple of minutes to ensure we get a
Sussex farmer crowned as worthy champion. To cast your vote, go to
www.rspb.org.uk/farmvote. The vote closes on 5 September.



If you could get your friends and family to vote too, that'd be great.



Thanks guys.



Adrian
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**************************************






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