Soul, nice example of dialectical thinking!
Boris Shoshensky

-- saul ostrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ipso facto everything is fuzzy and nothing is because the other is an
impossibility
Saul Ostrow
Visual Arts and Technologies





> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: <[email protected]>
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:26:23 EDT
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Fuzzy writing, fuzzy reading.
>
> Brian, after reading my harassing post to William about William's use of
> disablingly fuzzy words, writes:
>
> "All of this reads like a defense for a doctrine of "clear and distinct"
> ideas. Intimated in the accusation that "very often our effort turns to
> finding a
> word or phrase to "express" the blurry notion before we've cleared up the
> focus to a serviceable degree" is the presumption that distinction is
always
> possible."
>
> Comfortably for Brian, he evidently missed my repeated posts asserting that
> ALL notion is indeterminate, indefinite, multiplex and transitory. Plus my
> many
> remarks about how language misleads by "discreting" -- that is, since words
> are discrete -- i.e. "distinct" one from another, and you can see their
> "borders", their beginning and their end right there in front of us --   we
> tend
> erroneously to assume the notions they allegedly label are also discrete.
>
> But even without reading those, he had all the evidence he needed, right in
> the post he was commenting on, to show I was perhaps the last person on the
> forum to champion "clear and distinct ideas".
>
> In that posting I remarked on the frustration I feel when I see smart
people
> USE words lazily, carelessly, fuzzily.   I feel a similar frustration when
I
> see readers READ things that way, and not link the various accumulating
> remarks
> in a given statement.   A dark failing as a reader that Brian manifests,
and
> that he shares with William and Derek, would seem to be this: From a long
> statement they will seize some one or two elements to call inscrutable, or
to
> disagree with, and use it as the pretext to avoid addressing all the other,
> more
> seriously rebutting arguments in the post. Though Brian, I admit, didn't
> convey
> that he even noticed or grasped that there were pertinent other elements.
>
> No intelligent reader of my post would infer "it reads like a defense for a
> doctrine of "clear and distinct" ideas."
>
> My major complain in the post to William was the proclivity too many of us
> have to use a word that doesn't convey our notion -- because we simply
don't
> stop to consider what a variety of notion the word has the potential to
> occasion
> in our readers' minds. In William's post I cited the words 'perception',
> 'synthesis', 'relationship', and 'explained'.   William, for example,
said
> "perception is the synthesis of" a painting and its contemplator. This, I
> maintain,
> is a deceptively foggy assertion, a kind of fervid, dreamy locution written
> by someone who hasn't really worked to make his own notion serviceably
clear.
> Here are descriptions of the two most common notions occasioned by the word
> 'synthesis':
>
> As an action: "The combining of separate elements or substances to form a
> coherent whole."
>
> As an object: "The complex whole so formed."
>
> When I look at a painting, my thoughts/feelings/notion is quite separate
from
> the painting causing it.   So William's "perception", since it's said to
> "synthesize" what's in my head with what I'm looking at, must be different
> from
> what's in my head. His "perception" must be something other than my
> thoughts/feeling/notion. But what can anyone's "perception" be other than
the
> actions of
> thinking and feeling, or, as object, those thoughts and feelings? It is
> romantic, murky moonshine to assert there is the painting, the
contemplator's
> complex
> notion, and a third entity -- "perception" -- that is a "synthesis" of
> painting and notion.
>
> It reminds me of the boozy bunkum of my schooldays: "We are all members of
> one another!" "The world and I are one!"
>
> Look at the quote above from Brian. How could he possibly figure I was
> looking for "clear and distinct" ideas when I specifically convey I am only
> looking
> for a "serviceable degree" of clarity? ('Serviceable' is another word I've
> elaborated on to an extent William has found tedious in the extreme. I hope
> William has noticed that, despite how often I stress the serviceability of
a
> line
> like, "Please pass the carrots," listers still maintain that since I feel
> communication can never be perfect I must feel no communication at all is
> possible.)
>
> In the posting Brian is commenting on, I explicitly urge speakers to
sharpen
> their "notion into as clear a degree as you can manage".   It didn't occur
to
> Brian to reflect on why I don't say, "sharpen them until they are clear and
> distinct."
>
> Still later I explicitly agree with William's assertion, " everything is
> fuzzy and blurry, that nothing is so clear as to be without the sin of
fuzzy
> edges."   I add, " But it's a matter of the degree of sinfulness." I
indicate
> the
> fuzzy edges of a phrase like, "the river", but I go on to say, " Still,
'the
> river' can be serviceable, and in fact it usually is."
>
> I should perhaps modify my line, "No intelligent reader of my post would
> infer "it reads like a defense for a doctrine of "clear and distinct"
ideas."
> I
> should perhaps observe that what's prevailing here is either a lack of
> intelligence or a ruinous carelessness at reading. Either way, it
frustrates
> the
> likelihood of useful discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
> Home.
>       (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&amp;
> ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
>
>
> --
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