ISness Is what always is, and never isn't. I think!!!!!!

mando

On May 17, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Derek Allan wrote:

Hi Mando

Well, you may be right. My problem is that I don't know what isness is.

DA

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 8:06 AM, armando baeza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Derek,
For me ,some art has more ISness than others. copies and commercial art have smaller amounts of ISness. Some stuff that goes as fine art becouse
it has that look has no ISness.

Danto ,for me , says it best,

If I understand him correctly or even if I dont'. ART has ISness when it It's style comes from "one source, one being" with expression and meaning.

Like minded people are often persuaded minds.

mando

On May 17, 2008, at 1:09 PM, Derek Allan wrote:

Alack, Cheerskep, thou doth produce the evidence that would see me damned!

But, hold, do you really?

Have I not said a miilion times - often in response to Chris, I think - that all my statements on this matter are *in my opinion*. That is,
I am not appealing to some set of criteria that would - in theory -
ratify my views. I am simply saying what I think is the case.  Where
is the problem?

Moreover, let me turn the tables a little and say, 'What exactly is
this 'is-nees' of which you speak, Cheerskep - always putting it, I
note, in scare quotes?  Let's bring it out of that protective cocoon
and ask what 'is-ness' is (I assume 'is-ness' is something - even by
exception to a general rule?)

In other words, of what exactly do I stand accused? The condemned man
has at least the right to know as he walks to the scaffold...

DA

------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 5:29 AM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I wrote:
" Derek believes he espies absolute metaphysical
categories: "This work IS art, that other work IS NOT art." I believe
such
categories are mythical."

Derek responded:
"I have denied this a million times..."

Alas, Derek, I've found it'd be unreasonable to try to reason with you --
in
this case with the aim of prompting you to concede you do believe in an "is-ness" to "art" and in absolute categories of art/artworks/ artness, so
I'll
simply quote you. All of the following are from postings by you. An hour
spent
in
the archives would, I'm sure, turn up many, many more.
*****
I don't think a great sports event is in the same category as a great
work of
art, and any theory of art that said it was would, for me, be very
suspect.

things like Bouguereau's paintings, and e.g. airport novels or pop songs,
are
in fact not 'bad art' because they are not
art at all. They have the same general observable characteristics as
art -
e.g. an airport novel is a novel just as 'Crime and Punishment' is - but
they
in fact belong to quite different categories of human artefact.


There is a difference in *kind* between jazz (rock or pop) and Mozart.
One
is art the other is not.

I think Malraux hits the nail on the head when he says 'art is defined by
its
poles not by its borders.'   b& trying to define the borders is not
applicable
to artb& it is ignoring the nature of the thing it is studying [i.e.
art].

'What is art?' (which is the central problem of the philosophy of art
today
I would argue.)

What is the function of art in human life?

I have worked out now what I think the purpose of art is and I think it
is a
very important one.

If all reference to art were instantly removed from the planet and the thought of "art" as we know it was removed from our brains, would we
re-invent
art
(assuming we did) for 'entertainment' , to 'express ourselves', to
'decorate
our world' (all of which have been suggested as reasons by various
writers)
or
for some other reason.
I think 'some other reason'.

I do not, as I have said, think one can *prove* why any given work is a
work
of art - though I am not against 'analysing' the characteristics of a
work to
the extent possible.





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--
Derek Allan
http://www.home.netspeed.com.au/derek.allan/default.htm



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