Yes I have made this kind of point myself. It is part of my own argument as you should know by this time. (Read my essay on Art and History - preferably with care)
Gombrich is not my Satan. He is too superficial to merit that name. DA. ferably On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:56 AM, William Conger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Somewhere in a Gombrich book, Derek's Satan, is > recounted a story re Maiori Chief who responds to a > Rockefeller looking for tribal art that "We have no > art. We make everything as well as we can." > > WC > > > --- Saul Ostrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> My intention here was to raise the question of the >> art part of the phrase - >> given that much of the materials in question have >> been aesthetized and >> transformed into art by western societies - while >> the indigenous cultures >> tend to view this material as part of their religion >> or daily life - >> declaring this material art in the western sense of >> the term is comparable >> to another culture deciding for us that a cocoa cola >> bottle is as good as it >> the West gets given that it represents for them a >> talisman of our profound >> religious adherence to materialism >> Chair, Visual Arts and Technologies >> The Cleveland Institute of Art >> >> >> >> >> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > Reply-To: <[email protected]> >> > Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:11:20 EDT >> > To: <[email protected]> >> > Subject: Re: Presence >> > >> > Saul suggests: >> > >> > " Let us begin with a definition of all "African >> art"..." >> > >> > No, don't do that. I agree that certainly each of >> us should describe what we >> > have in mind with any key term with harmfully >> fuzzy edges. But clarity -- as >> > with so many of the notions in philosophy of art >> -- is always a matter of >> > degree. And there is a gross enough level at which >> the term 'African art' is >> > serviceable enough here. Besides, William did a >> good job of orienting us with >> > his >> > locution: "non-western art: Prehistoric, African, >> Oceanic, Japanese, Chinese, >> > Indian and related topics". We don't need >> definitions to take advantage of >> > William's helpful line. >> > >> > 'African art', vague at the edges though it is, >> struck me as a helluva lot >> > less vague than Benjamin's ostensible notion of >> 'aura'. I'm not a Benjamin >> > scholar so I stayed out of that part of this >> thread. But then you, Saul, gave >> > by >> > far the best description of the notion -- only to >> have it ignored by every >> > other >> > lister. Your description of the "aura" of an >> "original" was interesting to >> > me: all the emotive trappings that accumulate >> almost reverentially, and which >> > are evoked when we're in the presence of the work. >> > >> > I could imagine a useful discussion of the >> distinction between those >> > evocations and the feelings one might term purely >> aesthetic as we contemplate, >> > say, >> > the Mona Lisa. (I disagree with the lister -- or >> Artsy6 citation -- that >> > claimed >> > there's no "aura" in this sense when in the >> presence of the Mona Lisa.) But >> > as I say your good attempt was ignored on the >> forum. >> > >> > As I predicted, one of our listers -- William -- >> now dismisses Derek's "equal >> > footing" remark as "elementary". But even that at >> least concedes Derek had a >> > point. >> > >> > I think I confessed how, when I was a young >> smarty-pants in philosophy, my >> > first motive in reading any new paper was to find >> something wrong with it in >> > order to demonstrate that I was sharper than the >> guy who wrote it. With the >> > result that I regularly failed to take on board >> what was right in the paper. >> > Many listers -- and I admit this includes Derek -- >> display that "Yeah, but >> > --!" >> > impulse -- without the "Yeah" part. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ************** >> > Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and >> the live >> > music scene in your area - Check out >> TourTracker.com! >> > >> > >> > (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) >> > >> > >> > -- >> > This message has been scanned for viruses and >> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> > believed to be clean. > > -- Derek Allan http://www.home.netspeed.com.au/derek.allan/default.htm
