Placing things where they should be, is almost impossible.

On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:40 PM, joseph berg wrote:

- Never assume the obvious is true.

William Safire

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:32 PM, armando baeza <[email protected]> wrote:

Or dynamically simple.
mando


On Dec 1, 2009, at 9:28 PM, joseph berg wrote:

Concerning 'complexity', I would say that a masterpiece should make us
aware
that things can be more complex than we previously realized.

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:21 AM, Chris Miller <[email protected]
wrote:

 "from the very beginning of this book, my aim has been to elucidate
general
principles of the arts in terms of evolved adaptations"

"i want to sketch the general characteristics that inhere in the very
greatest
works of art, the masterpieces that have withstood Hume's test of time"

1. Complexity: "presenting audiences with the highest degree of
meaning-complexity that the mind can grasp"
"complexity does not mean complicatedness but rather the densely
significant
interrelations of, say, poetry, plotting, and dramatic rhythm in a play
like
"King Lear"

"artistic masterpieces fuse layer upon layer of meaning into a single,
unified, self-enhancing whole"
"the greatest works of art unite every aspect of human experience:
intellect
and the will, but also emotions and human values of every kind (including
ugliness and evil)

"the finest works of art draw us into them in order to yield up the deep,
intricate imaginative experiences.  They are marked by the utmost
lucidity
and
coherence"

So Dutton's notion of "great art" is Romantic, and is best exemplified
by
the
long, dramatic works that were popular in that era. It's hard to see how
a
piano sonata, lyric poem, Chardin still-life, or an abstract painting
could
ever qualify.

Which doesn't mean that such lesser things cannot be valuable and
important
-
but only that they offer less.

And I would tend to agree.
More is  more.
A full meal can be more satisfying than any snack. (even if you love
snacks)

2.Serious Content: "The themes of great works are love, death, and
human
fate."

"Artistic masterpieces need not be solemn and can end joyfully ...but
even
when they do, they are not merely jolly and amusing, and offer an
implicit
nod, if not to a darker side of human existence, then at least to what
might
be termed a realistic view of the finitude of life and aspiration"

"the arts that do  not attain greatness through prettiness or
attractiveness
can be illustrated by considering the ambiguous place of sexual acts in
art"

Which, again, would locate all purely instrumental music and abstract
painting somewhere lower than "the high white peaks of art"

That sounds a bit severe - but after all -- nobody, except Buddhist
 monks,
can live on  mountaintops forever.

I do question his exclusion of eroticism, however - and Dutton goes on
to
explicate this further:

"Sex itself is just too simple...pure eroticism by itself is no more
likely
as
a theme for great art than purely green and pleasant Pleistocene calendar landscapes are a likely theme for the greatest paintings. An enduring masterpiece that presented a perfect, pretty landscape would probably use
it
as, say, a background for the Expulsion from Eden
than as a central subject in its own right"

Interesting comment, don't you think?

Dutton's notion of great painting coincides with that of the French
Academy,
c. 1880. He'd let Manet;s bargirl in, but keep Monet's landscapes out.

"The evolutionary implications of waist-to-hip ratios for art history are
not
unlike the evolutionary implications for the presence of sweetness in
food.
That sugars are in all cuisines -- does not mean that a bowl of corn
 syrup
will ever be dinner"

But while sugar may taste sweet to every human tongue -- the sexual act
 is
not necessarily "simple", and is not portrayed that way in the sculptural programs of certain medieval Hindu temples, or in the pornographic themes
of
Ukyo-e.

But overall, I still agree with Dutton's elevation of serious content
(even
if plenty of  non-serious stuff  has passed Hume's test of time -
especially
Chinese ceramcis, which I don't think have any theme at all)

3.Purpose: "authenticity of artistic purpose -- a sense that THE ARTIST
MEANS
IT" -- and Dutton goes to Libertarian and conservative columnist, Charles
Murray for further explanations. (taken from his book "Human
Accomplishment")

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