Cheerskep;
I like that phrase, "everything following my colon..." with its scatological 
allusion, i.e., a "dumping" on Harris.  Of course I know you refer to the 
grammatical colon and not the biological colon but actually the latter meaning 
is considered primary in Webster's. 

Actually Collins is not the person who employs a narrow use of the word tact.  
His new book is a critique of earlier understandings of tacit, mainly Michael 
Polanyi's (who is the author of the bicycle example and the chief researcher in 
the field of tacit knowledge) and his own.  Now Collins actually expands his 
treatment of tacit, describing several different types of tacit knowledge, some 
of which can be explicit, and some which can't. The book of his book I'm 
referring to was published just a few weeks ago (a comp copy sent to me by 
Univ. Chicago Press).

I always have trouble with your hair-trigger eagerness to accuse others of not 
knowing the difference between art and, say, rock. Yes, yes, yes, a million 
times, yes, we all realize that art is not mind independent.  But ordinary 
usage in language enables us to sidestep numerous linguistic mud puddles with a 
certain degree of confidence in others' ability to  follow along. I use a 
metaphorical construct in saying art as if it was a personage that does such 
and such to avoid pedantic word clutter.  It's so common that one finds this 
sort of sidestepping in all levels of language without needing to wave red 
flags on every page.  So please stop the walloping .  We are peers here, not 
schoolboys scratching on slates at your feet. 

I am not sure that Harris is confused about the mind-independent issue.  He 
lists the ideocentric (art is--in my mind-- what I say it is) view of art as 
invalid because it can only be experienced one person at a time with no 
guarantee of transference at all to anyone else and thus cannot be a testable 
theory.  This is the problem, too, with the insistence that art cannot be 
intrinsic to anything and is therefore a subjective construct.  Only something 
extrinsic can be testable or qualified except, perhaps, clusters of opinions 
among people who have some common attitudes or tastes or self-interest (the 
institutional theory as a collective ideocentric opinion).  This is the problem 
with your view.  Only you can be the single authority of your own construct for 
art as a subjective case fictionally projected.  It is untestable and therefore 
art as an explicit concept cannot exist.  Harris has a similar problem with the 
conceptual view of art because he sees
 idea (the concept) as necessarily verbal and no matter what is offered or 
withheld as evidence of the idea it is only knowable in language, and again, a 
subjective language that reduces the experience to description. Of course I 
simplify.

There remains the question of whether or not some objective (significant) form 
is implicitly evidenced by manipulation of material evoking a gestalt in 
consciousness, perhaps a neural patterning.  If so, it can be tested, at least 
in its most general way.  This may be a intrinsic human capability, to perceive 
form (an abstract unity or selection, a framed field).  I don't mean 
significant form in the way invented by Roger Fry -- which is too loaded with 
societal values -- but significant in the sense of being immediately 
comprehended once a framing limit is imposed.  When the frame is described and 
measured then it may be that most humans will immediately sense a gestalt form 
within the framed field, albeit inflected differently via custom, emotional 
state, and the like.  Michael Brady has moved toward this, or something similar 
enough to be allied to it. The framing does not create mind-independent art but 
it may establish form and that has ever been
 called art has a dialectical engagement with form.

If listers receive the NYTimes Review of Books, take a look at the inside front 
cover of the new issue.  There's Reginald Gibbons' new book with my painting on 
the cover.  If you like poetry this is the book.  Reginald was a 2009 finalist 
for the National Book Award.  And in the same ad there is Collins' book, too.  
Buy books and save civilization!



 


 

----- Original Message ----
From: cheerskep <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, June 2, 2010 5:34:18 PM
Subject: Re: book

William asks:
I 'm a little confused re the statements you provide. Are both from Harris? Is
one your own, or Damasio's?
Everything following my colon there is by Harris. I can't say I'm a champion
of Damasio, but I felt Harris's dismissing remark was a bad reflection on
Harris, not Damasio.

I haven't read Harry Collins's "Rethinking Expertise", but I've read an
interview with him that I suspect might spur many scholars to protest his
narrow usage of 'knowledge':
idea of "tacit knowledge"things you can do but can't describe how. Riding a
bike is the best-known example, but both everyday life and contributions to
technical domains depend on tacit knowledge.

Then I myself protest Harris's and (forgive me, William) your assumption that,
for example, the word 'art' and related terms have mind-independent
"referents". I realize my protest is too unclear in so short an assertion. In
a subsequent posting I'll try to make it more comprehensible.  


I do like to think about Harris' idea that art is being subsumed by other
disciplines, broken up into varied modes of practice within those disciplines.
This is opposite the normative view that art is blurring the boundaries or is
taking from other disciplines. 




----- Original Message ----
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, June 2, 2010 12:13:29 PM
Subject: Re: book

William -- Since I know your respect for Damasio, I think the following
excerpt from Harris's brief intro to integrational linguistics may be of
interest to you:

It is sometimes said that a full understanding of our blinguistic
knowledgeb
(or, alternatively, a bscientificb understanding of language) will be
impossible until advances in the study of the brain reveal exactly how the
language faculty and other faculties are related. This is held out as one of
the
hopes for future bcognitive scienceb.

7c. Thinking of language in this way, however, rests on a misunderstanding.
The mistake is analogous to supposing that the explanation of why a clock
keeps good time must be that inside it there is a set of instructions for
time-keeping. Research into brain mechanisms is interesting in its own right.
But the fact that linguistic communication has already come to play such a
central role in civilization without relying so far on any such research
suggests that whatever human beings already know about language from their
own
experience is quite adequate for an bunderstandingb of the relevant
phenomena.

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