It seems we have basic miss-communication when it comes to the elementary terms of Physics and info-science. External is everything (info) outside of a specific notion or thought even the analysis as a total process is going on in the same head. Signal is an any information sensed. Signal sent by stone is it's existence (light reflected by it), if stone is looked at and recognized. WE cannot have exactly or absolutely the same notion more then once, next second it is different even that change can't be registered by us. The general concept of notion stays, but what changes is emotional and cognitive flavor of the notion because of constant new info bombarding the brain and body. The notion minute ego is a new info for notion at present, and they are both of the same general concept. I went in to those details to show how I understand 'external'. Two 'wires' in the brain, as a primitive example, are external to each other even they do almost the same job. I use notion as a view, conception, theory (in this instance), not as impression or feeling. >From the point of the Theory of Information to say that "Language" creates nothing, because it DOES nothing"is wrong. It can cure and kill. And why it exists in the first place? Boris Shoshensky
Boris Shoshensky ---------- Original Message ---------- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: The "trinary" view of "what there is". Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:37:21 EDT Boris quotes me: "As I say at the top this posting, at no time have I denied this. (Though it's helpful to consider that it's not the external event that is causing the notion; it's our observation of the event. That's why I keep saying those external events and objects are the "occasion", not the cause. )" TM And then Boris comments: "Observation is paying attention to external signal. Until notion is formed unique observation is an external component to it. Notion, immediately after formed, becomes external info for the next notion. This is a difference in our thinking." I have no clear idea what runs through your head when you say "external signal". One entry in a dictionary reads, "An indicator, such as a gesture or colored light, that serves as a means of communication." Another is, "Something that incites action, as in, "We heard the bugle giving the signal to retreat." In both of those, the key element is intention to convey info. I believe that in the "external, material, world" only living creatures ever have "intentions" When I observe a rock in the park, I would never say it is sending me a signal. Moreover, I think of the event I call an "observation" as always a mental event, notional. To "look at" the rock is merely to position my eyes in such a way that the light rays reflected off the rock strike my retina, which is literally part of my brain. If I'm not looking at the rock, light rays are nevertheless reflecting off it. But "observation" isn't taking place. And if the rays are hitting retinas wasted by a stroke, no observation is taking place - even though there is a material rock and reflected light rays. All "information" is notional. I am putting aside here the physicalist argument that there is no "notion" whatever ever, only disposition of brain tissue, because it's non-pertinent to your point. I feel sure that with 'external' you mean to convey "outside the head entirely", and I agreed with that: I accept that there is an external material rock, and external light rays . So I claim it's misleading to call "observation" an "external" event/component/object. In particular, I cannot assent to "notionb&becomes external info for the next notion". External to what if not to conscious notion? This seems to say notion is external to notion, which feels absurd to me. A notion created by an observation certainly can, and usually does, prompt further notion, but I'd never call that first notion "external info". I'd tend to feel it is "info" "about" the material world, but the "info" itself, being notional, is not itself "external". Boris concludes: "And language is often a marvelous tool to help us not only in the kitchen (and the garden, and the machine shop). It creates Society 'breathing' Arts and Sciences on marvelous levels." No. "Language" creates nothing, because it DOES nothing. Words are inert, like many tools I have - hammers, screw drivers. There are things I couldn't do without the screw driver, but 'd never attribute the action to the screwdriver. If I stab someone with a knife, I can't say, "It's not my fault! The knife killed him!" When you contemplate a printed word, all the activity is in your mind. When you utter a word, you count on its being heard -- processed by another mind. Because if it isn't, your utterance may disturb the physical air, but no communication -- i.e. new awareness in someone else's head -- takes place.
