I think I agree with Cheerskep here. Can I ever be sure that I can fully agree 
with anything another says or am I agreeing to my inner creation of what 
another 
says?  I  Communication must be a sort of negotiation over time in which 
meanings are created in the context of that time and bandied back and forth as 
it were not only between the communicants but between their self-conversations 
that accompany the actual conversations. Context embraces both the actual time 
and the inner time and they can be different.  There are at least four 
participants in any communication.

wc


----- Original Message ----
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 1:16:34 PM
Subject: Re: challenge

When Jeremy Seabrook wrote:

"If it had been the purpose of human activity to bring the planet to the
edge of ruin, no more efficient mechanism could have been invented than the
market economy,"

and Boris replied:

"There is no progress without  competition. The problem is in the
excesses,"

-- there was a good deal of merit in Boris's reponse.

But when William wrote:  "In communicating we create a context by means of
signs but the signs themselves are "meaningless",

-- and Boris responded:

"If signs play any role in the creation of a context, they have some
meaning just by existing,"

-- I think Boris goes badly wrong. Of course, I can't be sure, because I
can't be sure what either man has in mind with 'context', or -- even more to
the point -- what Boris has in mind with 'meaning'. But Boris's usage appears
to me to beg the point in the sense that it seems to assume a "meaning" is
an external-to-the-mind entity that the "sign" in some way "has".

We can escape being too balled up if we use the word 'meaning' to in some
way indicate the notion that arises in our mind when we hear a sound (e.g. of
a "word") or see an object (e.g. a gun, an apple, a scription of a "word").
"That's the meaning for me."

Similarly, when we have a notion and try to "put it into words", we are
trying to "express" the "meaning for me" -- i.e. we are trying to stir in the
other guy's mind a notion similar to ours. The error lies in the conviction
that our utterance, our would-be "expression", is an attempt to make our
auditor "see", comprehend, a mind-independent entity, a "meaning" that somehow
"exists" in the world of non-mental entities.

Rephrased:   All we are hoping for is to occasion in our auditor's mind a
notion roughly similar to the notion in our mind. We are not hoping that our
auditor will grasp "THE mind independent meaning" of our words.

Granted, we all resort to the (mistaken) correction, "That's not the
meaning of the word!" when the other guy, upon hearing us say "militate",
conjures
an eccentric notion -- e.g. the notion we would have in mind if we used the
word 'mitigate'. "No, no -- 'militate' doesn't mean to alleviate or
moderate. That's the meaning of 'mitigate'!"

With those two sentences we are obviously thinking that there is a
fact-of-the-matter, mind-independent meaning to 'militate'. But there isn't.
We are
simply counting on the other guy's mind, upon hearing "militate", to
associate that sound with roughly the notion that generally, commonly, arises
in
the mind when we read the dictionary entry, the "definition", of 'militate'
e.g., "to wield an influence on bringing about or preventing an effect",
e.g., 'excessive harshness in a parent militates against openness in the
parent's child'." The reader of that definition is not discovering the
in-some-way-absolute meaning of 'militate'. The reading of the definition is
occasioning a cluster of earlier associated notions, a cluster very similar to
what's
entertained by people familiar with the word 'militate'.

Similarly, there is no absolute meaning of 'context', which is why it's
important for a speaker to describe what he has in mind when he is using the
word.

Reply via email to